Consulted a few internet definitions, just to make sure I could coherently reply here... pur-ist: a person who insists on absolute adherence to traditional rules or structures, especially in language or style. Rockism is the belief that rock music is dependent on values such as authenticity and artfulness, and that such values elevate the genre over other forms of popular music. You're right, a rock purist is probably someone who values traditional rules or structures within rock music, without necessarily considering this in relation to other musical genres. However, one could argue that a "rockist" is a form of general music purist, and that their idea of "purity" is traditional rock music. That's more what I was trying to convey. Either way, we can split hairs over my use of terms but I think the point stands.
In every single hip-hop thread, and in most threads involving bands with less than 25 years of tenure, it seems to me. But this has been a very friendly thread, and this is getting way off topic, so that's all I'll say on that. Hey, look! In a few hours we get to discuss what Tweedy once derisively called a "big, dumb rocker!"
You're right, I apologize for the derailment -- I just can't resist a good debate over obscure internet music terminologies! "Far Far Away" is one of my favorite songs on Being There -- I actually feel like "Monday" and "Outtasite" kill the mood a little bit, as by the time "Far Far Away" is over I'm pretty deep into sad-sack mode and usually find myself skipping ahead to "Don't Forget the Flowers."
It may be but I tend to only look at the threads that interest me, which seem to attract mostly like-minded music fans. Every once in a while I'll encounter a forum member who says that they don't like anything remotely country, don't like any rap, or don't like any synthesizers contaminating their guitar rock but they tend to be a distinct minority on the threads I actively participate in. I would also guess that there are plenty of country or rap or synth-rock fans (not here at SHF, but more broadly in the world) who would say the same thing about guitar-driven rock, so I guess I'm just saying that the very existence of the term "rockism" seems to indicate the existence of a double standard. That it's somehow acceptable for fans of other musical genres (or sub-genres) to criticize rock but it's not acceptable for fans of rock to criticize other genres. Anyway, my head is starting to hurt. I'm going to just go back to listening to some music!
I just use rockism as a word for rock fans who exhibit a certain close-mindedness, who apply a certain Jann Wenner style snobbery to music: disdainful of other genres and seem to think there are all these rules. I always wonder how they enjoy music, because they seem to have a checklist of points that they use to decide if a song/artist/album is good. Some people do that and are not what I’d call “rockist” many of them revere classic rock from 1965-1975 above all other forms and periods and there is really no room for weirdness or color: no pop, no disco, no soul, certainly no hip hop. No punk except for the Clash. I know it when I see it, there are some of those people (usually but not always men) here but I’ve seen way more on other sites. SHforums just has too many music lovers for one kind to dominate. But I used to write a lot on Another site and the attitude was prevalent there, I felt like a terrorist because everything I wrote about anyone felt like a defense Or an attack.
As we wait for the next song, and the rockism discussion run its course, I want to point out that another alt.country band, The Jayhawks, was going through its own changes on the heels of its 1995 LP Tomorrow The Green Grass. Unlike the the UT dissolution, where two bands came out of the gate pretty quickly and publicly, The Jayhawks’ dissolved partnership between Mark Olsen and Gary Louris pretty much had everyone thinking that the band was sunk. They couldn’t be more wrong: in early 1997 the Gary Louris led ‘Hawks surprised many with Sound of Lies, which in my humble opinion is a fantastic, left-for-dead, go-for-broke album that shares many sonic surprises with Being There. If Being There is Alex Chilton’s Big Star, perhaps Sound of Lies is Chris Bell’s.... I felt like I was in hog heaven with these two records in 1997. Who said great rock and roll was dead?? Songs like The Man Who Loved Life, Big Star, Trouble, It’s Up To You - I put them in the same bucket as Sunken Treasure, Monday, I Got You, The Lonely 1.... Anyhow - I played these two albums to death - and still do today. It’s an album worth checking out and is belongs in a slightly broader discussion (considering Golden Smog as well)....
Having established that this album is not going to be another A.M. or just a rockier varient of Uncle Tupelo, "Far Far Away" goes further -- and less self-consciously -- into new territory. A beautiful song, packed with emotion, Jeff's really bringing the heart and soul to this: what an amazing singer! I know he's famous, but how is he not mentioned in the same breath with the greateest rock singers of all time? His singing reminds me of Alex Chilton in its simplicity and nakedness. I know that's two Alex Chilton references in a row for me: he doesn't sound like him, and ultimately I guess Jeff stands greater in the annals of music, (due to Alex being kind of lazy); it's just that same sort of simple, emotional singing that sounds easy to do but is actulaly nearly impossible because you have to really feel it when you're singing and most singers can't bring that kind of game to the studio. New addition Jay Bennett really making his presence felt on this I think, pushing the song into deeper levels of sophistication and bringing out the beating heart of the song more intensely. 5/5 (Hope you do't mind me rating. I noticed some of you dong that at the end of A.M., so I'll just do it here for my own records, I guess, as I rarely have the time to consider 12 songs at once.)
This is perfect. My understanding is that this was precisely what Jeff meant when he used the term. This is brilliant analogy, as I'm pretty sure Chris Bell is a touchtone influence for Gary (he came back to it in a more recent record Paging Mr Proust, especially the closer "I'll Be Your Key"). Sound of Lies is indeed a very deep and powerful record that never got its due, mainly because Gary has always been almost too melodic for his own good in the eye of some , er, "rockist" critics (when they were still prevalent). Around the same time, Olson started his "home made" project, The Original Harmony Ridge Creekdippers (with his then wife Victoria Williams). The first three albums are little unknown treasures, very raw, somehow amateurish sounding desert songs, that are unlike anything else I know and well worth checking out.
What a fascinating discussion to wake up to, guys. Really: very interesting stuff. I don't have much to add. I essentially agree with everything @Kevin Davis wrote. He nailed not only the fact of rockism's existence, but what makes it such a strange and funny phenomenon. We go through this every year with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees and people screeching "That isn't ROCK AND ROLL!" They should get their own hall. People sure are weird. Now...it's Thursday but let's party like it's... Monday Aw yeah. This song is not only Stonesian, it is the Stones circa 1971. I'd be hard-pressed to find a 'version' of rock 'n roll music that I like better than the Stones circa 1971. 'Monday' certainly fits into our thesis of Being There being a reflection on the world of music from the perspective of both the musicians and the fans. Here's a guy with a small town band (a pretty good one) who's just trying to get his van fixed up and head out on the road. But the life of a touring musician isn't as glamorous as he may have thought. The tone of the song is incredibly light and fun though, making it feel like all the struggles of the road are really just a rollicking good time in the life of a young man. He'll look back on this and smile, most likely, even if he just wants to get out of there. The song itself rocks and the horns are fabulous. I absolutely love horns in rock when they are done right. They are done right here. This is one of the best and most reliable rockers in Wilco's catalog. I mean, what's to be said? It rocks and I love it.
Definitely the Stones are the touch...er, the inspiration here, but somehow it doesn't really feel like pastiche, homage, or anything: it feels real; like Jeff Tweedy and Wilco just kind of effortlessly took up that rock and roll crown and put it on and owned it as if there had never been anyone who had ever truly rocked before them. It's got swagger and raunch, a dash of humor and blues and delivers a punch that feels just right. Love the horns, they add to the whole Exile In Main Street ("Happy" to be precise) vibe of the song. 4.3/5.
Pitchfork? Pitchfork is about as anti-rockist as it gets. Anyway, like I said, it's an old debate. A debate very much worth having, at the time, but not so much now, since "rock" is pretty much dead.
Yes, I know - sorry if that post was unclear. It's a pejorative term but there *are* people who, at the time, more or less upheld the aesthetic. It's kind of like how nobody refers to themself as a "hipster" but we know that people generally exhibiting stereotypical hipster traits do exist.
And the hits keep coming with the third track, ‘Monday.’ In the same raucous style as Casino Queen, this is the song that Jeff Tweedy dedicated to Jay Bennett at Wilco’s show after Jay died. And with that dedication, I finally understood the reference to ‘TLA.’ Charlie’s frustrated because he’s in a good band based in Florida but they’re not attracting an audience. In the meantime, a rival band has been successful enough to be on a tour of Japan. The first chorus of the song: "Monday, I'm all high Get me out of FLA In school, yeah I fooled ya Now I know I made a mistake" As he waits for a postcard from the guys in Japan, the chorus following the 3rd verse changes. No longer is it ‘FLA.’ Instead, "Monday, I'm all high Get me out of TLA...” Bennett—TLA—Titanic Love Affair. Probably obvious to everyone else but it took years before it clicked for me! Good song and, naturally, a playlist maker.
haha...I mean...not JUST country rock, I guess. The first two songs are definitely different dimensions, for me. I don't know, it felt good when I wrote it.
