Will McCartney's Archive Series Learn From Lennon's Imagine Ultimate Collection

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Ken.e., Aug 27, 2018.

  1. Ken.e.

    Ken.e. Spinning music since... Thread Starter

    I am huge fan of the Paul McCartney Archive Collection series. Some like RAM and McCartney II have had great bonus tracks where others have been light. Lennon's team and Yoko have done what looks an amazing job putting this deluxe version of imagine together.
    Mind you I was not a big fan of Peter Gabriel's So when they did the evolution tracks. I believe that the Imagine evoloution (from demo to final mix) tracks will likely be better but we'll see.
    What is the general consensus, has the Lennon camp topped McCartney's Archive Collection. Will this be the start of a series of Lennon Ultimate Collections?
    BeatlesObsessive likes this.
  2. Pawnmower

    Pawnmower Forum Resident

    Dearborn, MI
    Yes. Just take "Ram." While they offered more than any other entry in their Archive Collection at the time, they still held too much back.
    There was talk of another bonus disc of 9-10 tracks that looked very interesting indeed. There was 30+ demos we heard nothing of.
    You never seem to get an alt. take of anything. Paul could have used DVD/Blu-ray to really give the fans something comprehensive.
    Instead, Flowers in the Dirt comes around and we get a download card of over a dozen tracks that weren't even remastered.
    Eska68, longdist01 and Ken.e. like this.
  3. longdist01

    longdist01 Forum Resident

    Chicago, IL USA
    Paul is pretty minimal, Yoko endorsed a lot of material, and several Teams to prepared it all .
  4. Ken.e.

    Ken.e. Spinning music since... Thread Starter

    I would have enjoyed the additional Ram disc, I've never heard that there was an intention of adding another bonus disc.
  5. Paul H

    Paul H Forum Resident

    Nottingham, UK
    I think we're talking apples and oranges. Lennon produced but a handful of albums and there's been no hint so far that further albums will be given the same treatment. Under those circumstances, it's much easier to open a vault in such a comprehensive way. I think if Macca were to do likewise for each of his albums, we'd be a) broke, and b) overwhelmed by material.

    Also, as I've noted too many times already, I think the objective of the sets is different. Imagine is established as a classic album, so needs no further appraisal. McCartney's career, on the other hand, has been massively under appreciated over the years. The aim of the Archive Collection, as I see it, has been to draw attention to the main album in each case. That isn't well-served by plastering it's re-release with bonus tracks which, if anything, would distract attention from the main album.
  6. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Forum Resident

    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Agree with Paul above me, and also note that an artist's catalog generally gets milked a lot more once they are dead and therefore

    A. No longer creating new product, and

    B. No longer able to assert artistic judgment over what they what kept private - particularly when the death is so unexpected they had no chance to lay out what they want to occur for their heirs.
    SoundDoctor, Paul H and Ken.e. like this.
  7. forthlin

    forthlin Forum Resident

    If the bean counters make a case for the "Imagine" model being more profitable than what Paul's sets have been generating we'll see a change.
    BeatlesObsessive likes this.
  8. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    MPL is run by bean counters?
  9. Ken.e.

    Ken.e. Spinning music since... Thread Starter

    I do feel that Paul is intentionally leaving lots in the vault for future releases. Perhaps even thinking of his estate and legacy which I would think means a lot to Paul. I wonder however what will the music industry look like in 10 years or more.
  10. LSP2003

    LSP2003 Forum Resident

    Los Angeles
    Reissues are very different when the artist is still alive. John did dig bootlegs so he might have been pretty generous with the content.
    SoundDoctor and Ken.e. like this.
  11. Paul H

    Paul H Forum Resident

    Nottingham, UK
    Agreed. It's known that he auditioned a lot more material for each album than has been issued. I'd even wager that at one of the early meetings (to discuss the BOTR issue that kicked the series off) he even stipulated that he wanted "no more than 7 or 8" songs on each bonus disc. Having switched labels in order to extract additional income from his solo catalogue, he was clearly mindful of leaving something behind for future labels if he decided to move again.

    It appears that Capitol doesn't want to re-issue new deluxe sets of each album - rightly seeing this as something that would alienate rather than appease the hardcore - but it still leaves options open for a different kind of format. Rumours of a live anthology box seem to bear this out. I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of Studio Outtakes 1969-1973 etc collection sometime in the future.
    Ken.e. likes this.
  12. BeatlesObsessive

    BeatlesObsessive The Earl of Sandwich Ness

    Reasonable argument but you're overlooking what will inevitably be the main audience for the series. The McCartney collector who doesn't underrate his music. Yoko's rerelease of John's work indicates the high value she places on fan recognition of John as a music artist. Extraordinary work was done for Imagine, but considering the price of the McCartney reissues there is no reason for fans to expect less... even though we have been conditioned to do so. McCartney is a busy man with a life so he's not going to become an archivist, but what Yoko has accomplished here should be a wake up call for what fans should look forward to and expect if McCartney has interest in achieving anything with the archive series.
    leeroy jenkins likes this.
  13. BeatlesObsessive

    BeatlesObsessive The Earl of Sandwich Ness

    Even McCartney can not be thinking that his catalogue after 50 years will appeal to a large number of younger fans or to contemporary fans facing retirement and old age. If that were his expectation then his current approach would make sense. Holding back material so we can hear alternate takes of C Moon when we're 75 is a non starter. He needs to hire the archive teams and move projects to completion.
    leeroy jenkins, mrjinks and Ken.e. like this.
  14. Paul H

    Paul H Forum Resident

    Nottingham, UK
    Well, it's not my argument, so perhaps it's MPL who have overlooked the main audience. To be honest, I agree with you, but I suspect that McCartney is aiming these sets at the "casual" fan but giving a nod to the fact that he knows that the only way these sets will be considered a success is if they sell, and they'll only sell if they appeal to the hardcore. That's why, I think, we've had some bonus material (enough to tempt us) but not masses.

    Turning the OP's question around: I think the Lennon estate can learn from McCartney by offering the material unlimited. I'm surprised at how few negative comments there have been about the loudness of that set.
    BeatlesObsessive and Ken.e. like this.
  15. Ken.e.

    Ken.e. Spinning music since... Thread Starter

    I've enjoyed the Lennon set a lot more than I thought I might. I've never been a fan a lots of different takes of a song unless there significant difference between the two. I thought that I would be board after disc 2 but exactly the opposite it made me want to continue to listen. It's actually made me appreciate the album and songs more than I previously had.
    They did a great job bring different aspects of the music forward and drawing more attention to the subtlety of the strings and other instruments like Nicky Hopkins wonderful piano.
    BeatlesObsessive likes this.
  16. leeroy jenkins

    leeroy jenkins Forum Resident

    The United States
    Sadly, the answer is no. He will learn nothing from the Lennon set. He will continue to release over priced underwhelming sets.
    longdist01 and BeatlesObsessive like this.
  17. paulisdead

    paulisdead fast and bulbous

    I've recently bought a few of the deluxe books (Venus and Mars and Pipes of Peace) when they were on special. I loved the footage, but was pretty disappointed that this film sourced material was presented on a interlaced (blockey scan lines) DVD rather than a BluRay. I can see a case for cutting down the 2 disc editions, but the kind of fan that's going to shell out for the books, are the hardcore that DO want everything, rather than the casual fans the McCartney camp is trying to appeal too. The Pipes of Peace bonus CD was less than 40 minutes and we still didn't get the Jelly Bean mix of "Say Say Say" (which has never been released on CD) or any extra outakes that aren't on the 2 CD edition.

    We've also missed out on a chance for a 5.1 Tug of War or a BluRay of the original Quadraphonic mixes of Band On The Run and Venus and Mars. Wings Wild Life and Red Rose Speedway look a little better though, so maybe MPL have learnt something. But it sucks about everything else we've missed out on.
    Ken.e., supermd and longdist01 like this.
  18. jl151080

    jl151080 Forum Resident

    Bristol, UK
    It's a great shame we've missed out on 5.1 for the albums, especially given the taster provided with the 5.1 mixes on The McCartney Years DVD.

    Even more surprising considering the inclusion of 5.1 in the Pepper and White Album sets, which McCartney signed off on.
    Ken.e. likes this.
  19. Ken.e.

    Ken.e. Spinning music since... Thread Starter

    Was the RRS and WL a response to the Beatles box sets and the Lennon set? I think it was with the exception of the 5.1.

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