Hi David, The Svetlana Gray plated 5U4C were a nice step-up over the Wellsenton rectifier tube. However, the Black plated Winged C Svetlana 5U3C is another big leap over the Svetlana Gray Plate. I found a good source of the Svetlana Black plates as described by RachaelW here: 5C3S = 5U4G = 5U3C Closely Matched Pair Svetlana Black Plate NEW NOS STRONG | eBay Scroll up when the link loads.
That's a shame Christian that the hum is still there. I wonder if it is a dry solder joint? Now, that's a possibility.
Hi DanaMac, It's a brilliant tube, and glad you also like it as much as I (and others) do! As for how many tubes I went through in order to find this gem, it was more of a fluke than anything else. You see, I found that the R8 could sound better with a high gain, very closely balanced power supply tube in it, and so, when I bought the R800i, I inquired with valvesnmore.com about a replacement 5U4G after buying several current production 5U4G tubes, and not being that impressed. Then, just by chance, valvesnmore had a Svetlana winged C, 5U3C, black plate, Made in St Petersburg. Anyway, long story short, I ordered it and when it arrived and I installed it, my first thought, was WOW! How could a full-wave rectifier tube make so much difference? So I installed my old tube, and the difference it made to the sound of the R800i was amazing, so I put the 5U3C back in. Anyway, I ordered 4 more from eBay as spares. That might explain how impressed I was with this tube. Naturally, I then spread the news via this forum and the rest is history, as they say.
If that's the case, which it should be, you'll absolutely love the black plates. If I could gauge the difference, I'd say the black plates are at least as twice as good a the grey plates - if you can imagine such a thing!
Yes it is Arjan. Just make sure that it is the NOS Svetlana winged C logo, 5U3C black plate, made in St. Petersburg.
Hi Everyone, As I have recently sang praises about the Organic Audio speaker cables, I can also thoroughly recommend the Van Den Hul D-102 MkIII Hybrid interconnect cable. Nuanced bass, very articulate midrange, and amazing top end. Overall, it's a very neutral cable with a very slight tilt in the top end, and I am using it between my NAIM streaming DAC and the Willsenton R800i. The only caveat: This cable is probably best for speakers which are either a little rolled off in the top end, through to speakers which are neutral (my speakers). Speakers which are already a little "hot on top", MAY end up with a little too much top end.
Arjan, I've posted a link above to the retailer that I purchased the NOS Svetlana winged C Black Plates from. He's located in the Ukraine and from my experience is an excellent supplier of Svetlana tubes. Great communicator. Shipping is a tad slow but is free if that's important. I do wish he'd offer an expedited shipping offer but hell, his country is at war. I do have to say that this Black plated rectifier tube is the best $75 US that I've spent in audio to be totally honest
Hi RachelW, I see that the conductor material of these ICs is silver. That would certainly explain the tilt in the upper end. Folks with beryllium tweeters should definitely avoid silver at all costs, especially if you haven't lost the HF in your hearing ability .
Thanks DanaMac. I can see that this is a maelstrom that pulls one in whatever one thinks one wants. Despite having a grey plate 5U3C I've just ordered a black plate using your link. I said I'd report back after 100 hours' use of the Telefunken 12ax7. Rachael is right, as usual. The whole sound picture has expanded, becoming with an incredible lushness, but with a simultaneous increase in micro-detail. Strings sound wonderful, but woodwinds are also more distinctive, their individual timbres clearly distinguishable. The new Gold Lion 300bs may be contributing something. I don't know. What is striking is that I now use two turntables: a Linn LP12 bought in 1985, but gradually upgraded (mostly with non-Linn parts) and a Lenco GL75. The latter is a weird story. My first tt as a student (50 years ago) was an GL75. Recently, nostalgically, I bought one on eBay for £200. I installed a heavy plinth and inserted a Linn Ekos with a Denon 103. It matched and even bettered the Linn until I put a new Karousel bearing into the Linn when the Linn pulled ahead. But now that I've upgraded the tubes in the R8001 the two tts have again become evenly matched. They sound different, but each is equally enjoyable. (The Thorens 124 is kept in the background.) So--two conundrums. I'm back where I started in 1974, with a turntable that is everything as good as all the upgrades and changes I've made in the 50 years in between--Rega, Linn, Thorens. And the changes I've made to the R800i has now suddenly brought the Linn and Lenco closer together. Can anyone explain this? I should have just stuck with my original Lenco...
Hi David, Having owned both versions of the Svetlana, I don't need to go very far out on a limb to say that the Svetlana black plate will far exceed the performance of the gray plate.
R800 owners, Some time back I posted about setting bias on 805 tubes on this amp. The manual is ambiguous to say the least. Willsenton (vis-a-vis China Hifi) confirmed that 120ma is the max--it is not the default setting--FYI! My research also confirms that for a single ended class A amp, we should keep bias at 90% of max or lower, depending on taste. If anyone has any research to contradict this, I'm all ears! But, for now, I think it's wise for me to keep the bias at or below about 108ma, which is 90% of 120 ma. Also, I'm considering a power transformer that guarantees optimal voltage for the amp--i.e. 117v/120v. My current unit, a Torus Tot Power, may not do that. The risk of red plating or not getting enough current to the plates of the 805s should be eliminated with this tool.
One more thing, does anyone else feel the 805 version of the 800 sounds more holographic biased below 110ma and even as low as 100ma?
After reading comments on some other sites I've biased my R800i at about 95ma. I'm not sure I can hear a difference in the sound... It would be good to hear from others.
Hi DanaMac, Yes, that's right. I suspect that it is the silver component of the cables that would most likely be responsible for the slight tilt up in the top end - please note, though, that it is only minor, so nothing extreme. I believe it was you who spoke about your speaker cables, whereby each individual strand is silver coated/plated, and that you were suffering from an exaggerated top end. You were going to fix it by swapping to pure copper.
Hi David, I'm glad you like the Telefunkens. In my view, they are an outstanding tube, although there are other NOS brands which come close. Still, there is something "magical" about the Telefunkens. I don't know exactly what it is, but what I will say, is the realism of piano is uncanny. As you may have read from one of my previous comments on this thread, that piano is not only the hardest for a system to reproduce, but it is also quite difficult to record, as well. There are quite a few tracks that I've found on Qobuz/Tidal which sound as if the piano is physically being played in your listening room. When I hear this, it's always an indication that I'm heading in the right direction, re tube, cable selection. Of course, the Telefunkens, in my view, are the best tube I've come across for that "in your room" performance. As for your turntables, I cannot say what is going on. I did own an LP12 many years ago, and it was the best TT that I had ever heard. Unfortunately, the stereo system I owned at the time, was stolen via a burglary, and I've been playing catch up ever since, although I believe I've now surpassed the sound I had way back then.
Hi Prisoner, One thing I've never spoken about is the bias I use for the PSVane 805 (ACME series). I used to have them biased at 120mA, but for quite a while I've used 100mA. This came about after talking to a friend who knows a thing or three about electronics - especially tube amplification. He simply stated that 120mA was way too high for the 805, and that if the meters were accurate, that the 805 would not last long being biased so high. Anyway, I took his advice and lowered the bias to 100mA. To begin with, I wasn't aware of any sound improvement, as I wasn't doing any critical listening. Then, one day, I played a few tracks from a playlist I created on Tidal which I hadn't played for a few weeks - I must point out that I was VERY familiar with every track in the playlist. The sound was definitely an improvement, although I thought that the midrange simply sounded nicer. Perhaps a little more open, although there appeared to be a minor difference (meaning improvement) in the soundstaging, which was already quite good anyway. So, I left it at 100mA which is what it is still set as, and I must say that I'd really forgotten about it. That is, until you mentioned it.
Absolutely it will. Not commenting on the Willsenton directly, but many tube amp companies run their tubes very hot to advertise more power output, which obviously shortens tube life and often reduces sound quality.
I almost forgot. I'm currently (pun not intended) looking for great power cables, as well as a power conditioner. We have between 220 to 240 Volts here in Australia (so nominally 230V) and I've noticed that my HiFi always sounds its best of an evening. Of course, psychologically, as humans, we can have times where our hearing, our mood, and other things effect what and how we interpret what we hear, and I must admit that I'm probably most relaxed of an evening as well. Still, I believe that my system has now got to the stage where upgraded power cables and a power conditioner would be well worth the expense. Any suggestions?
Without putting too fine a point on it, the Willsenton responds in a very positive way to the Svetlana winged "C" 5U3C black plate St. Petersburg manufactured tube. Of course, these are NOS, and not current production, but the price of them is still very reasonable - perhaps because there were a lot of them manufactured, or perhaps because many modern tube amps use a diode array to achieve full-wave rectification, and so the tube is not in high demand compared to the supply of this tube. Who knows, but all I can say, is that this tube is an absolute must have if you own the R800i. I've got 5 of them, so I'll never run out.
I Currently own the wilsenton r800i for the past year ao so. My Sources are rega planar 6 ania pro cartridge with a rega phone stage with a mono/stereo switch plus a marantz sa ki ruby sacd player which I just got a couple of weeks ago. Playing all this through a pair of klipsch k4's that I have owned since 1990. I'm saving up for a new pair of speakers either arendal 1793 tower or q acoustics 500 or q acoustics 50. I have not done any tube rolling because I keep buying music. So question is understanding that 6sn7 makes the biggest difference in sound. Am I likely to hear much difference with my klipsch speakers and so which tubes so I look at. I have been keeping up with this thread but i'm just a little overwhelmed with the amount of choices and tubes. Thank you in advance
Hi RachaelW, I'm guessing that the reason you're noticing a difference between day and evening listening sessions is that the power supply to your "HiFi" is contaminated with RFI/EFI from the wall and further back in the power supply chain. If you don't have a dedicated line from the fuse box, or even better, a dedicated fusebox with its own ground to earth, you might want to consider adding one. Just having other electrical components (Refrigerator, TVs, computers, pumps, etc) in the same power line as your HiFi will definitely add to the distortion in the signal from your amp/preamp/streamer, etc. Years ago I lived a half mile from an AM radio station and its 1000 foot radio towers. Needless to say those towers threw lots of nasties into the air and contaminated the power lines for the area. I could literally hear the radio broadcasts through my speakers! I found that using highly shielded signal cables and a quality power regenerator/conditioner like that from Audience solved the problem I was having with the radio station. At present I have a dedicated secondary "fuse box" with a dedicated line to the HiFi to eliminate any "hash" from other electrical components in the house. Also I'm using a Shunyata Triton Hydra power conditioner that eliminates any possible contamination from the dedicated line and any "backwards" contamination from the power supplies of the audio components to the other components. Yes, with AC power, the power moves in both directions! I'm certain that if your throw a high-quality power conditioner, and a dedicated power line, into your system you won't notice any difference in your day/evening listening sessions. Ain't this fun?
You absolutely will hear an improvement late at night, even if you have great power cords and conditioning. Late night listening is almost always better, for the reasons you stated
