Technics vs R8, for bass response, in your room, is not an apple to apple comparison. The Technics has bass controls, loudness, etc. that can make up for the limitations of speakers. IMO, no matter what tube you roll into the R8, you're not going to get the bass you want without a sub.
Also, REL (and maybe others, no idea) will allow you to try their subs for 60 days, and if not satisfied, will take them back, and pay return shipping too - so it doesn't cost a thing to try (unless you buy, of course).
Re: lacking bass in the R8: before I had a sub, I found it all depended on the type of music I listened to with it. For some things, it was fine, for others you could tell it just wasn't there, but, as I've said before, I believe all systems need subs. People like Paul McGowan, the British Audiophile, and my own ears, convinced me of that.
If you own the first Robert Plant - Alison Kraus CD Raising Sand, put that on, and it will have more than enough bass, without a sub; lots of jazz records do as well. However, many 1970s/1980s/1990s recordings seem to be lacking. At least that's what I've noticed.
I do not that's just a general comment on tube amps output transformers are key to full frequency response. It's not intended as a knock on the R8 at all I personally am not a bass freak and enjoy a midrange-centric sound it's just a fact of design. Also based on what two in this thread have stated regarding bass.
Thanks... I just wondered if you heard her. I'd say that one doesn't need to spend $$$ on an amp, as the R8 outperforms, or matches, amps costing several times its cost, and by adding a sub, you get it all. But, like with many things, that's subjective to the listener. Happy holidays!
This debate about lower (bass) frequencies is really interesting and I wish it was possible for some of us to get together with our main setups and hear how they sound compared to each other. Even without Covid travel issues, the practicality(ies) would still be tricky given the small matter of differing continents! I don't find the R8 lacking lower frequencies in my own system which has no sub. Maybe it's just happy coincidence that the component combo along with the room simply works well, or, without realising, I've been listening to music with significantly reduced bass over the years. My system info is up to date but, in case it helps, here's the current chain / configuration: Listening position: 8-9 feet from the speakers, listener seated slightly to the right. Speakers position: 66" to 72" apart (centre to centre), along a "long" wall approx 3 ft from the room corners. 6" to 8" away from the back wall. Source (main)*: Bluesound Node 2i > all copper RCA coax to BNC coax (Mark Grant Cables). Slight EQ tweaking. DAC: Denafrips Pontus II (varying modes) > QED Reference Audio 40 XLR interconnects Pre*: Quad Artera Pre (flat EQ) > all copper RCA to RCA interconnects - Mark Grant HDX1 Amp*: Willsenton R8 (input from the Quad is to the dedicated "pre" channel of the R8) > (cable: Van Damme UP-LCOFC 4mm, all copper) Speakers: Dynaudio Special Forty All interconnects 1.0 to 1.5m. Speaker cable length 2m to 3m. * modest upgrade to power cords, replacing stock kettle leads. The Pontus II isn't supplied with a power cord, so (separate) purchase needed. R8 valve/tube configuration (open to change on a whim... ): - Genalex Gold Lion KT77 x4 (happy with Tung-Sol EL34Bs but find the KT77s a touch richer in tonality - took 40+ hours to bed in) - Tung-Sol 6SL7 GTB x2 - Electro Harmonix 6SN7 EH x2 (v6 & v9) Yesterday, I was listening to "Sanctitude" by Katatonia (a live semi-acoustic recording) and the eponymously titled "Lunatic Soul" (Riverside spinoff). Even without a sub, there were occasions some bottom end could be "felt". No doubt a sub would add significantly to that "feel" but, for me, the overall balance is very satisfying as-is and the bottom end definitely goes deeper than with my previous SS amp setup (NAD C 658 + PS Audio Stellar S300). BTW 1: the addition of the Quad pre may seem a bit odd. However, I wanted a separate headphone amp and the Quad ticked the right boxes for functionality - it also happens to sound pretty good! Just for fun, I lobbed it into the main system and it worked, so I left it there thus avoiding the potential need to run split one pair of XLR cables from the Pontus II into two pairs of RCA cables, one pair serving the R8 with the other serving the headphone amp. BTW 2 / fun fact: With the sole exception of the speakers, all of the components in my current setup have been purchased without demos and, so far, no regrets. This is in stark contrast to a string of "buyer's regret" purchases following a host of demos (amps and speakers mainly). Moral of the story? Store demos won't always reveal the best or worst of hi-fi kit. Alternatively, I seem to be better at "tuning in" to particular reviewers than to the actual audio in demos... Happy listening all.
I'm one of those that is very happy with the R8 'Low Frequency" response. I have mentioned this before on several R8 thread. I even have a "bump" on my Curve (Room Correction/REW) at the 50hz (10db) frequency. My room is "smallish" 11'X13' and it could be the main reason. Also, my SS amplifier is a Hegel H360, which for my taste has a better control of the lower end than the R8, but the REW Curve also show the same 50hz "bump" as the R8. My speakers are Dynaudio Focus 340 (86db). This has made really question how important is the personal preference/taste and the equipment synergy. I really feel bad for the folks that can't get the R8 to meet their expectation, but I guess is part of this crazy hobby. "Yesterday, I was listening to "Sanctitude" by Katatonia (a live semi-acoustic recording) and the eponymously titled "Lunatic Soul" (Riverside spinoff)." Peace, Tony
Have you had a chance to try out your Shuguang 6SL7 tubes yet? Are they the Shuguang 6SL7-T model? I don't have any Shuguang 6SL7 tubes but I am using some Shuguang CV181-Z tubes that I used to replace some 6SN7 tubes and they have a very nice smooth well balanced sound; I don't think they are quite as bright sounding as the Psvane CV181-T tubes. I had planned on adding some matching Shuguang 6SL7-Z tubes but they are no longer available as it appears all of the existing stock has been sold since the Shuguang factory stopped making tubes after August 2019. Some Psvane engineers left Psvane in 2019 to start a new tube company called Linlai; they seem to want to become the premier Chinese tube maker for high end tubes. After seeing some favorable reviews from owners of the Feliks Euforia headphone amplifier that had replaced the stock Psvane CV181-TII tube with a Linlai E-6SL7 tube, I decoded to take a chance and order some of the Linlai E-6SL7 tubes which should be arriving in a few days. Here are some comments that I found from two Feliks Euforia owners after they replaced their Psvane CV181-TII tubes with some Linlai E-6SL7 tubes. "The Lin Lai are a bit warmer and more powerful in the bass. In the mids and trebles, they are quite faithful to the Ps Vane and have a more organic sound. A little less shrill than the Ps Vane and simply fuller and more rounded in sound. They also sound more musical but still on point and precise." "The good thing about the Linlai is that the mids and highs are relatively unchanged compared to the Psvane CV181-TII. I didn’t notice any loss there, they seem to have gained a bit of sparkle. They are also more accurate, closer to the music and go a bit deeper in the highs and a bit longer in the low end. Detail resolution is also very good, I like it better than the Psvane tubes." So I have high hopes for the Linlai E-6Sl7 which might be one of the best new production 6SL7 tubes available but since it is so new it is too early to tell. I haven't been able to find any user reviews for the E-6SL7 and only those two above reviews for the E-6SN7. I've also bought some NOS RCA 5691 Red Base tubes which should also be arriving in a few days. My plan is to pit some of the best tubes from the past against some of the best from the present and see which I prefer. I just joined today; can someone tell me how add a picture above my user name? Also how can I add a picture to my reply? Thanks
Sorry I made an error I meant to say the Feliks Euforia owners had replaced their Psvane CV181-TII tubes with Linlai E-6SN7 tubes not E-6SL7 tubes.
Yes 6SL7T, unfortunately one of the tubes was very noisy so I asked for a replacement. And this is were the nightmare begins when dealing with Chinese suppliers. They will only replace a tube upon receiving the faulty tube back. So I sent it back on 16th December and it's still in the Chinese postal service some where. Fortunately I have tracking and insurance for the item, although at my own costs. I received a partial refund of £39 via PayPal from AliExpress which I am now contesting, as I only wanted a replacement tube. Bare in mind the tubes cost me £126 . Lesson learned buying from AliExpress!, Never again!
This has been a great thread! I just received my R8 two days ago and put about 8 hrs of listening with stock tubes (KT88). I pre ordered tube upgrades prior to deliver and rolled them using the AP Norah Jones as reference. In the Pre, NOS Brimar 6SL7 and Tung Sol 6SN7 (only two, not rectifier). For the Amp, new Mullard EL34’s. All I can say is it made a huge improvement in clarity and control. I am totally experiencing that life like and holographic sound I’ve read about for years. I’m hooked Curious if replacing the stock rectifier would improve sound, as I had read it only controls voltage. This is all new to me, it is my first tube setup.
Wow, Sorry to hear about your problem with those 6SL7-T tubes. I bought two of the Shuguang CV181-Z tubes back in March of 2021 and four of the Shuguang KT88-Z tubes back in July of 2021 from a Chines dealer. I received all of the tubes and they had no noise problems and are all still working well. It's getting almost impossible to find any Shuguang 6SL7-T, 6SL7-Z, or WE6SL7 tubes now; since Shuguang stopped making tubes around August of 2019, the supply has been pretty much dried up. If you do find one you are scrapping the bottom of the barrel so I'd expect that there is now more chance of getting a noisy tube. That's why I decided to order a pair of the LinLai E-6SL7 tubes on AliExpress. I ordered them on Dec 2021 and they have cleared US Customs and have been received by the delivering company and should be arriving in a few days. You are actually lucky that you bought yours through AliExpress as they do offer you more protection than if you had bought them directly from the dealer. They will refund your purchase price if the package gets lost and you can file a dispute with them if you can't get a refund from the seller for the bad tube that you returned. Those Linlai E-6SL7 tubes can be found on AliExpress for $178 US or 130 GBP a pair. I haven't seen any reviews for the Linlai E-6SL7 tubes yet, but the Linlai E-6SN7 tubes which have been out for about a year are getting very favorable user reviews. Linlai was founded by some engineers that left Psvane in 2019 to start a new tube company and they seem very serious about becoming the premiere high-end Chinese tube manufacturer. If you google "Linlai 6moons" you can find some expert reviews on their 300B, 2A3, 211, 845, 805, 101D tubes. I'll give an update on those Linlai E-6SL7 tubes tubes as soon as I get them.
Here are a couple links that may help you have any trouble getting your money back Is AliExpress Safe And How To Avoid Getting Scammed Buyer Protection
Thanks for those but I had to do it via PayPal. AliExpress were adamant that the partial refund of £39 was it and case closed. So got onto PayPal who have refunded me monies. Real bad experience with AliExpress and reading the reviews they do have a tendency to give partial refunds when there is an issue with an item of purchase. Still none the wiser why they issue partial refunds instead of whole or % refunds. Anyway I now have one good 6SL7T tube, looks good in the box.....
That's good to know information if I have any problems with the Linlai tubes that I ordered on AliExpress as I also paid with PayPal. I might be asking you for advise.
Have you listened to that one tube yet. You could replace one channel with that tube and then see if you can notice any difference between the two channels?
I've read somewhere the Shuguang factory burned down, or perhaps one of their factories, and that's why they're not producing 6SN7 and 6SL7s. But they are producing other tubes I recently bought some of their 2a3c tubes stateside and they sound excellent and thus far reliable.
What I heard was that they had a fire around August of 2019 that damaged their tube production plant and they were told by the Chinese government that they could not rebuild the plant in the same location and would have to relocate it so I do not believe they have made any more tubes since August of 2019. Their plan was to have a new plant open in 18 to 24 months after the fire in a new location. But it has already been 29 months since the fire and there hasn't been any announcements from Shuguang about them even starting to build a new factory. There are rumors that Shuguang tube factory is closed
Planning this today. Also now thinking on adding a Linlai tube, but will see if there is a difference in one channel with the Shuguang against the RCA 6SL7GT VT229. R8 currently runs KT 88 c wings Svetlana tubes, so might also swap over to EL34 c wings too today.
So I swapped out a RCA JAN 6SL7gt VT229 for the Shuguang 6SL7t with the KT88 Svetlana power tubes. I tried out the Sting double album Duets on my Linn, now I know this is great recording....... Ok I cannot swap between channels on the R8 so had to listen in stereo, could I tell the difference between tubes? In a word no. Left and right channels sounded the same, album sounded as fantastic as it does using the RCA's, symbols crisp and a bass that I can feel. Now I forget how much I paid for my pair of RCA tubes but it was under 1/2 the price of a pair of Shuguang 6SL7-T. So what now? I have a pair of Raytheon JAN CRP 6SL7 VT 229 somewhere to try out........
I just received the two Linlai E-6SL7 tubes today. When I first but them in I found that one tube did make a very low crackling noise that was about the same level as the normal low level residual hum that I get from my speaker. But after playing the tube for about 10 hours the crackling sound is gone and I'm just left with the normal very low hum that I get from my other 6SL7 tubes. I like the tubes a lot; people that like a warmer tubey sound with rolled off highs or have a system now that is very analytical and bright probably won't like them. But if you have a system that is warm sounding with rolled off highs and want to brighten it up and make it more revealing and analytical then the Linlai E-6SL7 could be the perfect tube for you. Although I'm not using a Willsenton R8 amplifier, I am using a RFTLYS A5 which has almost the same tube compliment as it uses 4 x KT88, 2 x 6SN7, and 2 6SL7 tubes. I'm using Energy C4 and NHT SB3 speakers which I would describe as neutral sounding speakers. I'm currently using 4 x Shuguang KT88-Z, 2 x Shuguang CV181-Z, 2 x NOS Sylvania 6SL7WGT Gold Brand tubes. I'd describe my current sound warm, sweet, musical with some high end roll off. Both the Shuguang CV181-Z and Sylvania 6SL7WGT have a similar warm sound with slightly rolled off highs. I replaced the Sylvania 6SL7WGT tubes with the Linlai E-6SL7 tubes and with only about 10 hours on the tubes and here is what I am hearing so far. The lows sound very good and tight. The midrange has more presence and sounds more in the room. The highs sound improved with more sparkle. If you like the warm low end with rolled off high end of the old tube amplifiers, you are probably not going to like the Linlai E-6SL7. I find it to be a very accurate and analytical tube that doesn't try to color the sound but instead tries to reproduce it faithfully. It is a good match for my more laid back and reserved sounding Shuguang CV181-Z tube. When I replaced the Sylvania 6SL7WGT with the Linlai E-6SL7 and used it with the Shuguang CV181-z the sound seemed more open with a bigger stage. Female voices especially had more presence and sounded very nice. The highs were not rolled off and were all there and sounded very nice. The Linlai E-6SL7 has a very wide range balanced big sound that should sound very good with classical music. From what I have read of the Psvane CV181-TII, I believe the Linlai E-6SL7 has a similar sound signature so paring these two tubes up together could result into a sound that is too bright and fatiguing. But is sounds great paired up with my Shuguang CV181-Z tubes, it adds some presence and high end that makes the sound more engaging and life like. It sounds more like the singer is in the room with you rather than coming out of a speaker. I played the Celtic Woman CD and the female voices were hauntingly beautiful and in the room. I played the Titanic movie sound track CD as it has a lot of deep bass and the deep bass it there and well controlled and not bloated. If I was you, I'd sell the one Shuguang 6SL7-T you should be able to get a good price and sell it easily as they are very hard to find now. Stick with your Raytheon if they sound that good to you. I'd be careful buying the Linlai E-6SL7 tubes if you have a system that already trends to be on the bright side as you probably won't like them. But if your highs seem a little rolled off than the Linlai E-6SL7 could sound very good. Also make sure they will fit in your amplifier; they are very wide at 56mm and just barely fit in my RFTLYS A5 amplifier with about 3mm of space between the Linlai E-6SL7 tube and the Shuguang CV181-Z which is about 46mm wide, but they do look fabulous in that amp. I also got some NOS RCA 5691 red base tubes on the same day as the Linlai E-6Sl7 tubes arrived. Now I have a problem as I really like the sound of them too, they have slightly warmer-lush sound that is very intoxicating. I plan to use the Linlai for about a month and then switch over to the RCA for a month and try to make a decision on which one I want to keep in my amp; they are both excellent sounding tubes. I did have a very low level crackling noise in one of the Linlai tubes that I bought on AliExpress but it did go away after I had use the tube for about 10 hours and it now seems fine.
I'm going to see if I have figured out how to post a picture here. Here is a link to the Linlai E-6SL7 tube and a Shuguang CV181-Z tube so you can see how close they are to each other. I don't think Willsenton R8 owners will have a problem as it looks like you have more room between the 6SN7 and 6SL7 tubes
