Wilson Audio Yvette

I’m a long term Vandersteen owner. I started with new Model 2CESigs, and then added two 2WQ Subs. Richard himself said I had a poor man’s Model 5A in terms of sound quality, and they did sound great.

I decided to move up the line and traded in my 2CE Sigs for a pair of Treos (non CT). Interesting note there is that Vandersteen guru/dealer John Ruttan generally recommends the non CT as more of a better match for tubed gear, and the CT for solid state. Anyway, what I loved about the Treos is the razor sharp focus - like the edges of the light square on an old movie projector on a wall. The image is in front of the speaker as opposed to the Model 2 where the image is more in the speaker/around the speaker. The Treo imaging kind of hits you in the chest. They are exceptional at low level, late night listening. You get almost 100% off the detail even with the volume down. I kept the 2WQs and had a system better than Quatros according to Vandersteen (the 2WQ subs are really great especially in pairs).

I couldn’t shake a fatigue factor in my system, though. They could deliver big moments, Audio show moments, wow moments - but I always was reaching for the volume control to turn it down. It couldn’t be the Treos, I thought, so I systematically went through and replaced almost everything else, sometimes more than once. In the end, after a couple of years, I swapped out the speakers as I realized that I did not like their forward “on the nose” presentation. I temporarily had a pair of Daedalus DA 1.1 V2 speakers in my system which are the opposite of the Treos. They are very organic, very imprecise, very forgiving. It’s a very fine speaker for just enjoying music.

I did miss the detail, though, and so when I moved to a larger house in 2020, I picked up a used pair (from a friend and original owner) of Vandersteen 5As. These are the speakers I was looking for. I had John and his set up guru come over and professionally adjust and set them up for me. Imaging is ridiculous, bass is full scale, and yet they are never fatiguing. Like the Treo/Quatro, John does not recommend the CT version with tubes as a general rule. He said he would necessarily recommend that as an upgrade, and would instead set sights on either used Model 7s or Kentos of the upgrade urge should strike. The other option would be a set of the Vandersteen M5 HPA amps, which supposedly transform the speakers.

My setup is already great, though, and I don’t plan on tweaking it for a while. It is extremely resolving, so much so that every change to equipment or placement or cable now matters. It’sa lot of fun, though.

To the OP, if you are considering larger speakers, make sure you check out used Model 5A or 5A carbons before you buy Treo CTs. The 5s are a lot more speakers in every measure and they are overbuilt. Supposedly Vandersteen lost money on the design overall because of the high cost and hours to build them. They are capable of very big moments, but also are great to just listen to casually.

One additional suggestion (and a strong one) would be to check out the Daedalus Muse speakers. They are drop dead gorgeous - solid hardwood, handmade cabinets. Like fine furniture. Beautiful sound, not fussy to set up, heirloom quality. I just heard these again at Capital Audio Fest and they are a HUGE value at under $9k new. Lou Hinckley (owner, craftsmen) is a super guy, too. My used larger Daedalus were easily the most beautiful pieces of Audio I’ve ever owned. HUGE WAF. The Muse is almost too good of a bargain for what you get. The size might match your room needs better. Also, just to reiterate again, the Vandersteen imaging is a double edged sword when it comes to placement and set up. The Treos are very fussy. Sit one foot outside of the sweet spot and the sound markedly changes.

Happy Hunting!

 

Joseph Audio Perspective2
Maple
7-10 days from pulling the pin.
Treo CT still in mix...but fading a bit

Heard the big brother at the show.
Never heard this model.

Am I crazy buying them unheard!?
Yes, crazy as a shyte house rat.
Living dangerously!

I want them by Turkey Day so I have a little time. Shipping is free but I'll pay extra to expedite if need be.

 

Matt Hooper loves his Joseph Audio speakers, though Im not sure what model. Perhaps pm him.

 

I can't compare them to the Wilsons, as I've never heard them (and wouldn't aspire to owning them), but I've heard the Treo CT, and do aspire to owning them, after having heard them. You will love them, I think.

 

@Ingenieur - I don't know what your max budget is (you don't need to disclose) and my experience with older Wilsons was that they were ruthlessly revealing, requiring you to get the rest of your system in order (not necessarily throwing big bucks at it). Among the newer dynamic speakers (and I haven't heard the latest from any of them), I liked the Rockports better than Magico or even bigger YG. None of those are cheap.
Vandersteen seems to have a fairly long term, relatively large following which speaks to something.

 

Allow me to throw another wrench. If you are still deciding on your short list, definitely add Qln speakers from Sweden to it. I heard a pair of Prestige 3 powered by a Vinny Rossi integrated - it was out of this world. For your purposes, perhaps the Prestige 5 might be a better fit. There is a dealer in VA, called Well Pleased Audio.

Products | Qln

www.wellpleasedav.com

 

My comfort level is $15k, by choice.
I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Treo or Perspective, leaning towards the latter.

I have no doubt I would be happy with either.
The upside: no bad choice, no wrong decision.
Both are excellent. The Treo appear to be a bargain. I've talked to a few familiar with both, Treo more clinical, JA 'warmer'. At my age and hearing both will sound amazing.

Heap the scorn and ridicule but I like the look of the JA better. It's a bit smaller
8.5 x 13 x 36 vs 10 x 15 x 43, which may be enough for floor or mantle location.

I'm not the type to stress over or regret a purchase. I'll appreciate and enjoy either.
I'll decide, do it and enjoy it.

 

These two reviews are consistent with how it measured in JA's room - Joseph Audio Perspective loudspeaker Perspective2 Graphene | Stereophile.com and Joseph, Purist, Alluxity, Doshi | High End 2019 - Part-Time Audiophile (parttimeaudiophile.com).

I heard the larger Pearl a few years ago at CAF 2019 in a near-field setup and was impressed; not as a wow speaker but one you settle-in and just enjoy for its long term musicality (for want of a better term). Many wow speakers can become very fatiguing, as Corey Greenberg said years ago I do not need to hear the gnat scratching itself in the back of the room. The Stereophile review was done in a far field setup (122" from the baffles), but the speaker front baffles were 74" from the wall behind and there was mention of excessive base at about 30-Hz. Your setup may be much closer to the back wall which 'may' emphasize the room bass peak, but your room may be much larger which may reduce that possibility.

Shoot an email to Joseph Audio and ask them about your setup. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Good Luck,

 

I agree wouldn’t hurt to email both manufacturers with your room set up and see how they recommend set up or recommend a different speaker from their line up based on the room or all out tell you the speaker might not work. I know when I reached out to B&W they invited me into their headquarters to listen and then after meeting in Massachusetts, B&W set up an in house audition of the Nautilus speakers completely free of charge. Definitely wouldn’t hurt to reach out.

 

I’ve only heard the last JA Perspectives, like many reviews state they are very easy to listen to and no faults. Personally found them to be like the Linn 5 series in that while doing nothing wrong and sounding nice they did nothing amazing. The Vandersteen have a less dynamic sound but wow in their soundstage, the reason they have a following, while JA keeps everything in line, just no I’m amazed by moment with them for myself. Not extremely detailed for their price, not extremely dynamic, either micro or macro, not “live” sounding, not a huge soundstage, they just sound pleasing and are very easy to listen to. Again not sure how different the 2 or new model is. I personally think you should reach out to the manufacturers and see if either can provide an in house demo themselves or through a local dealer. It’s a decent amount to spend without trying and you’re concerned with set up in the room.

 

Using some basic measurements and a room mode calculator I can't identify any glaring nodes <100 Hz. My room (32 x 14 x 8) opens to two other large volumes. It seems to 'smooth' things out. I drew up the Vandersteen grid and could make it work, and I assume it applies to most speakers of similar geometry.

Having said that looking at several mfgs. set up guides it looks like I can follow their guidelines. The JA will give a bit more flexibility, I can put them on the floor about 3' out.

As long as I keep them out of the corners I should be ok. Using this with 32 x 13.8 x 7.8 and ITU RT60 = 0.25 and 20-200 Hz range I can't see (hopefully not hear, lol) any glaring flaws.
amroc - THE Room Mode Calculator

I may contact the dealer and mfgs. but from what I've read neither are really location sensitive. I'd be very surprised if any said it won't work, don't buy.

I'm not going to worry about it, it's mad $ made on the side and it's not worth stressing over. If I can't be happy with either choice I have bigger issues, lol.

This is a win-win

 

Since you are back in the hunt i must throw out my favorite under 15k, the Spendor D9.2.
Try as you might you need to hear them.
Perfect imaging.
Clean refinement with not a hard edge to be heard.
British amazing midrange
Hugely deep bass extemsion from the quasi t-line downfiring port.
Flexible in room positioning.
Sweet refined treble,
Great match with your speakers.
Fast and coherent bottom to top, impressive for a floorstander.

 

those look interesting...thanks for muddying the waters, lol

Speakers are like many things, too many good options.

this is from their manual, similar to Vandersteen. Their is no way to get 3-4 m (10 -13 ft)
In my room 1/11 is 35" out from back wall
And 1/5 is 33" from sidewalls (center of speaker)
Speaker face to rear ~40"
speaker center to side wall same 33"

I can do this
But this contradicts what I've read here to avoid side=back wall spacing?

The performance of a loudspeaker system in a room varies with placement. Ideal positioning of the speakers is 3-4 m apart and preferably at least 0.5-1m away from side and rear walls. Avoid distances from walls that correspond to 1/2, 1/4, 1/6 etc., of the room dimensions. Seek instead odd fractions; 1/3, 1/5, 1/7 etc. to minimise effects of room related resonances.

 

it's like a car: AMG, Audi RS, BMW M, etc.
In the long run will you not enjoy ANY of them?


here's the rub: the vast majority of you guys, especially some in this thread: you, @Benzion , @Pkcpga, @avanti1960 , @pacvr, @jonwoody, et al, have forgotten more about this subject matter than I will likely ever know. So when you guys say something I would be a fool to not consider it.
Thanks for that, and thanks for making my head spin.

 

Ten years ago I wanted to buy a two-seat convertible for my wife. We looked at BMW Z4, Porsche Boxter, and the Nissan Z of same vintage. I found a low mileage Z4 in white, her favorite color, with beautiful tan interior. She loved it, but would've been happy with any of them.
As we like pics:

 

I am very glad to have fooled you anything I know is purely experiential whereas you constantly blind me with science.

 

That is one sweet ride nice job Tim!

 

The Vandersteen room placement chart that is in their manual is a general rule of thumb. He actually gives a couple of different methods to use in setting the speakers, and then you will also notice there is a sentence or two about moving them slightly off axis and finding what sounds best to you. Both the Treo and the Quatro can actually be set up very close to a rear wall, and in fact many of the set up gurus recommend this placement for those speakers.

here is the thing about those particular Vandersteens, however. As I mentioned in my earlier post, they have a very sharp range of focus. If you were sitting in your listening spot and you move a couple of feet up or down, left or right, you will literally hear the sound change. The focus is razor-sharp, for better or for worse.

some people really do not want this, and would prefer to have a speaker that is more friendly to the entire room. I think the Joseph audio speakers fit that category, and they really do sound great. I think they were actually located about 10 miles from my house. The Daedalus speakers that I also mentioned in my earlier post are also very forgiving and very easy to place in a room essentially wherever you want to place them. If you have some room in your budget, I would highly recommend looking at their Apollo speaker. I believe those are just over $16,000 new shipped, but you never know they might be able to work you out a deal. Those are truly magnificent sounding speakers, and as I said earlier, they have a huge wife approval factor because the cabinetry is better than what you get on fine furniture.

 

oh yeah, amazing sounding speaker for jazz.

 

+1.

 

Possibly, just avoid placement close to corners/room boundaries. The Treo CT I heard were a bit boomy because of that. A disclaimer was made by the dealer right away, and when we moved them away from corners the boom disappeared.

 

Glad to be in good company. However, I'm not as smart as you think I am. My ears might be smarter than me.

 

I've read about the 'beaming' or narrow dispersion. He talks about it on a video, he says a few inches may not matter but >6" might.
That concerns me a bit.

The finish on the Joseph Audio is pretty darn fine too. Another plus. My wife is cool as long as speaker grills are on and no wires running all over the place, even then, only a shrug of the shoulders and a roll of the eyes may result. lol

Treo, it goes south quickly off axis


JA, older model

 

nice sports car, good hubby, lol
My wife likes Mini's (basically a BMW).
Got her a 2020 Clubman All4 S last year.
He previous was a 2010 sold it with only 60k on it.
She's rough on cars, 0 mechanical sympathy.
One of the few things I actually believe NEED warmed up is an engine, light throttle and load for the first 10 minutes. Nope, gotta go!!!