Would Beatles Anthology expanded sell ?

That would mean millions of people are idiots who didn't bother turning the package over to look at the tracklisting before buying.

 

I think that there definitely is a market for a re-imagined series of 'Anthology' albums, or for a completely new collection. The Anthology albums were criticised by many fans for various reasons to do with mixes that could all be put right, and it would be a chance to remaster what was on the 'Anthologies', whilst also allowing the addition of a completed 'Now And Then' and the new mixes Lynne did of 'FAAB' and 'Real Love'.

Then we have various unreleased songs or demos that could flesh out a new disc; obviously there is the long 'Helter Skelter' and 'Revolution Take 20', which could both be bonus tracks (maybe joining 'Carnival Of Light' in an 'extended jam section'), and we have various songs like 'Etcetera', 'Bad To Me', 'I'm In Love', 'Dehra Dun', 'A Case Of The Blues', etc, that could be rounded up here (I am aware that 'I'm In Love' and 'Bad To Me' were also on the 'Bootleg 1963' album, but it would be nice to have them on a more considered and prestigious release).

There is still a lot that Beatles fans would want to hear; where is the original studio version of 'While My Guitar Gently Weeps', where is the original take of what became known as 'Love To You', the take of Paul singing 'I Want You', etc. Then we have the demos that were given to Dick James, all of which would be of interest, and the demos of songs they gave away, such as 'World Without Love'.

If you package them together and add 'Now And Then', there is no way this would be a 'scraping the barrel' release. There are still countless alternative studio takes that would be great to hear which could flesh this out.

 

NO

 

If they put all 6 Anthology discs in one attractive cardboard box set many of us would buy it again just for the packaging.

 

Uh no,Anthology?

 

If 5.1 or atmos mixes are done yes, main reason I buy these expensive sets. It amazes me thats not the main reason for everyone

 

Sorry my mistake ! Big one ! That's what happens now, when I'm following 3 or 4 threads at once !!

If ever there is a scientific measurement, or contest. For world's angriest or most disappointed person. Regarding the lack of a Beatles Now & Then release.. I'll win hands down. In fact i'll win easily guaranteed.

I've talked to Yoko Ono about it, members of Wings, Mark Hudson, rock stars unrelated to the Beatles. I've written to Ringo about it. Sent a message-query through a friend to Jeff Lynne. Spoken to friends that delivered the Traveling Wilburys rented equipment. I've spoken to Denny Seiwell about it ! The A&R department at Capitol Records in Hollywood !!!- In fact that was the first call I made about it....when Anthology 3 was released with George Martin's orchestral piece "A Beginning" opening the album instead of a new song. I complained & traded info with Capitol A&R for 20 minutes...they were pretty upset to learn magazines like Beatles Monthly were publishing articles on Now & Then & All For Love..

I've spoken to Brian Ray of McCartney's band about it.. I did learn----at least according to Brian that 'The McCartney' band never did a studio version of India..sadly he knew zip about Now & Then..I sent a top secret inquiry to the world's foremost Beatles historian...he said huh ?...I spoke twice with journalist Rip Rense-the man who broke the story about Now & Then's existence...I signed at least 2 online petitions asking the Beatles to release Now & Then....I asked a member of Brian Wilson's band about it...sent enquiries through a mutual friend to Ringo's in concert drummer..the list goes on...

Yeah that would be fine with me.. to release it on Anthology 4... or anywhwhere...i've concluded after years of inquiries, discussions, reading books, articles, that 1 of the 4 voting Board Members at Apple is likely against releasing it.

 

Err...the only real "Sour Milk Sea" that could've been released under The Beatles banner has been released as of last year. Once you're getting into computer trickery without the consent of the singer/songwriter things get sticky. Yes, I know you're advocating to somehow layer George's vocal from the Esher tapes to the Jackie Lomax version (which had Paul and Ringo on it, right?) or something, but to what end? Would that really make it a "new Beatles song"? Especially as it would just to be done to "bring The Beatles back together" without any of them really consenting to it. This was what, 1968? If they had wanted to do "Sour Milk Sea" as a Beatles tune then, they would've. But they didn't. So I don't think it should be reverse-engineered now.

Now doing what they did with "Free As A Bird" and "Real Love" (and apparently "Now and Then") is much different, as it had Paul, George and Ringo agreeing to work on unreleased Lennon recordings and in the case of "Free As A Bird" contributing to the writing. Let's leave the story there.

Truly, the only successful posthumous example of "combining" two different recordings into a great sounding whole, was the 2010 "Valleys Of Neptune" by Hendrix. I thought that came off great, but many apparently disagree.

Did George really call Live at the BBC rubbish?

Hey there Mess, you are one of my absolute favorite posters. But do you really think "Etcetera" exists? I know it's been reported online that it exists in Paul's archive, but it just seems odd that the song would be passed over for not only Anthology 3 but also last years The Beatles re-issue. I mean, I know he's said something like he didn't think it was that great, but I also get the feeling that if it was in a releasable form and he took another listen here in 2019, he'd be a fan of it. Perhaps I'm wrong and he's just that embarrassed of it. But then again, he released "That Means A Lot" (which I personally think is great) and we know he thinks that one is doo-doo.

 

Well Jim I appreciate diverse views & discussion, that's why we're here..

It goes a bit further on Sour Milk Sea... there is likely/Probably a Harrison vocal on the multitrack..a guide vocal for Lomax or the band.. that is according to authors/historians that had accesss to the tapes.

But yeah generally you're right about the position i'm advocating which you oppose, as drawing a line, nothing beyond something like Free As A Bird which had active participation from the Beatles & or the Beatles, Widows etc.

Just to clarify a bit further.. say hypothetically you could edit pieces of 2-3 or 4 different takes of the Beatles doing All Things Must Pass, & using studio gear & techniques to improve pitch, meter, eq, maybe add or change reverb, create stereo vocals or guitars etc...

I'd be in favor of that... & a member here 'Funky Drummer' posted such a track a few years ago. It was greatly improved ( still needed more work ) & was arguably 100% authentic... it was indeed the Beatles playing, writing, singing... just like Phil Spector, Geo Martin & 200 producers of the 50s-60s-70s & beyond have done. This guy pieced sections of different takes together, & used modern equipment to adjust pitch & tempo, EQ & reverb etc... not much different than Geo Martin monkeying with the varispeed control in 67-68... except then pitch & tempo change was locked together. Now you can affect them individually.

The other part of your objection is, if I understand you correctly, it should be a requirement to have the Beatles consent & or participation...

Well my view is "generally speaking" on a case by case basis, if the editing & result is really good, I doubt the Beatles would object, but rather endorse it. No one has a right to release or manufacture or profit financially, but you could certainly have them hear it. If they liked it, I think they'd be for it. I'm pretty sure they know about that Now & Then forgery thats been online for a decade. But I don't mean anything like that.

If a few more Beatles songs of high quality can be squeezed out from the Jan 69 sessions or wherever with digital editing I think its great. Zillions of fans hear the A/B Nagra reels all the time, & they sound crappy. Why not make them sound good... in the case of Beatles Anthology, it was the brisk trade in boots that made the Beatles take notice & eventually compile the set, which has reverberations right up to the present day...Abbey Road 50th is about to come out with a bunch of similar outtakes, remixed & so on.

 

Hmm. Thoughtful response johnny. And I will say that as far as "Sour Milk Sea" goes, if indeed there was a Harrison guide vocal on the multitrack tape I think you'd have a decent case in getting that thing out there for release. As a recording by "The Beatles"? Perhaps not, but still.

I also think that if there is decent "song material" available for whatever this new Let It Be project ultimately ends up being, and it is on multitrack tape then I think it could be worked with. But where I'd say "count me out" is when you're retrofitting parts but varispeeding to a ridiculous degree. The Nagra stuff, I will say I'm inclined to say leave that stuff alone and not release it on CD/vinyl/download as official Beatles product. But then, there are a few interesting performances that do maybe deserve release. So I don't know...

 

Don’t take this the wrong way, but why did you think The Traveling Wilburys’ ex-roadie and Brian Wilson’s backup band would have any information about “Now and Then”?

 

I didn't necessarily. But no stone unturned.

You never know when or where or what will turn up. I remember sitting in a studio in the 70s as a kid. This guy Phil Kauffman was sitting there, He told me the most amazing story. Turns out he was the guy that cremated Gram Parsons body in the desert. After he 'stole' the corpse at the airport.

It was just random that Phil would recite that story to a kid, 40 years ago, has nothing to do with the Beatles... But unlikely places sometimes have the info, Actually Yoko told me the most about ghat, which wasn't a lot. I felt Mark Hudson could've but didin't. Cest La Vie

 

Each one of these SDE box sets has had a couple of tracks that didn't make the outtakes discs that fans here wish had been on it, and that's just the known stuff. Put all those together with the Threetles jams and you have your bonus disc for an Anthology reissue box set. Maybe even a completed "Now and Then". But that's not even necessary.

Remix all or at least the Sessions-Mixed tracks and a few others and throw in the above mentioned bonus 7th audio disc, and you have a 7-disc set + 1 BR audio disc you can sell with a reproduction of the amazing original Anthology book, a full-size poster of the Voorman covers and you've got a really nice set = 1 full disc of previously unreleased material, all the remixes, and it's all three CD volumes and the book in the same package for the first time ever. That's unique and would sell well. If "Now and Then" is actually finished and released it would hit Top 10, and the box set would do even better.

 

Now and Then is the only thing in the vaults (that I know of) that I truly, desperately want to hear.
I have very little curiosity about Carnival of Light or the really long version of Helter Skelter.
They would be a joy to hear (once.)
Now and Then, (okay one other - the full McCartney demo of A World Without Love) are things I feel I must hear.
Frankly, there is no expanded reissue I would value more than a properly done Anthology.

 

No.... as long as that Son of Martin was involved...

 

Breaking: millions of people are idiots.


But on a more serious note, I also think the branding/titling of it was terrible. I think most Beatles fans who bought the Anthology albums themselves knew what they were getting into, and initial purchases made upon release were presumably mostly by people who knew more or less what they were getting into.

But, being 14 or 15 at the time, I also remember a lot of kids who had one or more of the Anthology sets, and that was...it. They probably expressed some interest in Beatles stuff and some parent or relative was more than happy to oblige for a christmas/birthday/whatever present, and of course the Anthology albums were the most prominent things in the marketplace in '95-'96, and it's highly likely those aunts and uncles didn't turn the package over. (I also remember a few people owning the BBC set for some reason, probably for similar reasons. Hype, advertising, and store placement went a long way in those days)

 

The discussion here focuses on outtakes, but that isn't where my interest lies.

As I've mentioned on other threads, the available live recordings are what I'd like to see assembled together in a box set. We all have them on various boots, but let's do it right and have the highest quality possible. With a booklet that contextualizes each recording.

 

I wonder if it is down to embarrassment at Marianne turning it down, because she had wanted 'Eleanor Rigby'? You could be right, it may not exist, I just felt that the firsthand testimony of the staff member who described an unknown song as 'beautiful' or whatever term it was, must mean something ?

Regarding Marianne, didn't she hear a demo and reject it ? That would mean an unreleased song does exist surely ?

As for 'Sour Milk Sea', has the original demo of this out-fake ever been released officially ?

 

The song titles were the same.
When you live in the forum world you overestimate people’s understanding of alternate and unreleased takes of songs that millions are already familiar with.

 

I think that it is fair to say that it definitely does exist :

"Etcetera" is an unreleased song recorded as a demo by Paul McCartney on 20 August 1968, during a session for The Beatles (also known as "the White Album").

Paul McCartney recalls in his authorised biography, Many Years from Now, that he had written the song, intending to give it to Marianne Faithfull to record, but she passed on recording it, as did the Beatles.[1]

The song was recorded as a demo during the same session that produced other "White Album" songs "Mother Nature's Son" and "Wild Honey Pie". McCartney recorded one take of the song while waiting for session musicians to arrive. After the take was recorded, the tape was taken away by George Martin's assistant, Chris Thomas. The recording is said to have lyrics, a bridge, and an introduction that is reminiscent of "Here, There and Everywhere".[1]

McCartney himself has not spoken well of "Etcetera". He has stated that "it's a bad song" and that he's "glad it died in a tape bin".[1] On the other hand, engineer Alan Brown called it "a very beautiful song." Brown described the song as a "ballad and has the word 'etcetera' several times in the lyric. I only heard it twice: when [McCartney] recorded it and when we played it back to him. The tape was taken away and I've never heard of it since."[2]

Music critic Richie Unterberger describes "Etcetera" as "the second most sought-after outtake" from the White Album. In terms of the tape itself, Unterberger writes that EMI engineer Alan Brown recalled that the tape is no longer in EMI's vaults.[3] However, an acetate copy of the song has surfaced in McCartney's personal archive in the early years of the 21st century.[1] The song has yet to be released officially.

 

Would Beatles Anthology expanded sell ?

Not well.

Also the Beatles' core albums start with Please Please Me.

 

We've heard it.

Kind of.

An instrumental version, at least - "Thingumybob."

 

I think you nailed it here, sweetdude. Some hardcore fans are so hungry for "new" Beatles material that they would gladly welcome such artificial concoctions, but I don't think that there's a big enough audience for this sort of thing in 2019 to justify such an endeavor, as there was back in the 90s. At some point, they'd risk damaging "the brand" with such outfakes. They've obviously embraced the new strategy of releasing additional outtakes by way of these deluxe packages along with the remixed albums--which give us a new way of enjoying the old favorites--so I don't expect we'll be seeing more Anthologies and I don't imagine that they're hording great unheard gems at this point. The Beatles left a near perfect legacy. I think that's enough.

 

I 100% agree with you regarding 'out-fakes', it is dodgy territory, and would surely go against the wishes of John and George. It is one thing to tidy up and finish a demo, but another entirely to edit various songs together (the 'Love' album is surely the only time we will see anything like that, hopefully).

On the other hand, I do believe there is potential for one last rarities album, which could round up 'Etcetera', 'Carnival Of Light', 'A Case Of The Blues', the first take of 'Love You To', the original studio version of 'Gently Weeps', 'Dehra Dun', 'Cosmically Conscious', and some of the Dick James demos, alongside the demo of 'World Without Love'. Stick a completed 'Now And Then' onto the album, and I am sure it would hold enough interest to be a worthwhile release.

I would add the above to a remastered re-release of the Anthology albums, which could also use different mixes to those Emerick decided to go ahead with.