Would you pay $11,000 or more for speakers if the cabinet was made in China??

I prefer the sound of speakers that are drama-free.

 

For those that would never buy a pair of speakers at $11k msrp, that's ok. Folks have to decide what they can afford and how much they are willing to spend. We shouldn't look down on anyone for doing or affording something different than we do or can afford.

And we have to have our priorities. One audio friend of mine has one son in grad school and the other daughter in dental school - and he's had the same 5 channel Aerial speakers for like 15-20 years, and luvs them, he would luv to upgrade but he has his priorities in life. I've been helping both of my daughters, too, and frankly I've gone crazy with this theater upgrade, spending $$ out of my retirement that perhaps I shouldn't. But last December I was hospitalized for a burst appendix, I could have died or been seriously and permanently injured, instead in many ways I am healthier and feeling better than I have in years, and my home theater and audio has perhaps been my craziest OCD obsession all these years. So I am fulfilling it. But I have limits as well on how much I will spend for speakers and gear, believe it or not. Most all of us do!

 

Got to ask, have you seen the 30T ?

 

Made in China used to have good quality back some 20 yrs ago. These days they have ruined themselves.

 

They have a lot of good quality today too, like in optics. Still, I try to avoid any Chicom made anything.

 

For $11K I'd visit Japan, hire an experienced craftsman to build me a pair from exotic Japanese hard wood whilst smoking a cigar.

Probably bring home a few laserdisc/s players too.

 

I would go for an 11k speaker set if Dr. Manhattan made them on Mars.

 

I wish! But Michael is still working on the 30t design and manufacture.

 

Watchmen” is a fantastic HBO show conclusion tonight! But DrMnhattan’s Ben livin on Earth in human form the past 10 years and I can confirm he is not Michael Kelly! Sorry you had your hopes up!

 

VMPS sourced cabinetry in China before Brian Cheney died and the business ended.

but he tried to keep his speaker products relatively affordable while providing stellar sound.

Im not crazy about sending business to China but figured if it made hi-end sound attainable to more people ... then I could support that.

 

Exactly!

And of course even if $11k speakers are out of your budget new they might be in your ballpark used!

 

I can only comment on BW 800 and 700 /cm series build quality difference ,as an example. Its like night and day. 700/CM series cabinets and drivers built in China are vastly inferior. Sometimes downright shoddy. I will never again buy any speaker/ cabinet made in China. Not for 3.5 k USD and certainly not for 11k USD.

 

fwiw at least performa 3 are manufactured in indonesia

 

Curious: Does anyone have issue with the quality, sonics, fit and finish of speakers they have had with substantial parts or cabinets manufactured in any other countries, not just China, or even the USA, regardless of price?

 

To build on what @Steven J Bruzonsky has been saying, it should be easily obvious to anyone looking objectively at how this all went down that Craig at Theatermax is disingenuous. Consider that the whole rigmarole on the AVS Forum was after years of being an authorized Aerial Acoustics dealer, during which time Aerial:

• utilized a Danish cabinetmaker for its loudspeakers; and
• marked the speakers as "Made in the USA".

Craig said nothing about the FTC guidelines re: marking products made in the USA during the period where the cabinets were made in Denmark and he was an authorized dealer. It's not a stretch to conclude Craig's vendetta has nothing to do with "Chinese-made cabinets", and everything to do with his dealership agreement being terminated and wanting to publicly tarnish the Aerial Acoustics brand and reputation of Michael Kelly.

Moreoever, Craig is deceiving consumers by:

• holding himself out on his public website as an Aerial Acoustics dealer, when he is in fact not an authorized dealer: Brands - TheaterMax . His dealership agreement was terminated years ago. Note no dealers listed in New Jersey, where Craig is based: Dealers | Aerial Acoustics .
• holding himself out as an Aerial Acoustics dealer in every one of his Audiogon ads, when he in fact not.
• from what I can gather, continuing to list Aerial speakers on Audiogon, which, at least sometimes, he does not have in his possession. The speakers are often not available for pickup, supposedly located in customer's houses or (my personal favorite) storage facilities because they purportedly just couldn't stand the made-in-China cabinets in their house any longer(!). Hifishark no longer imports into Craig's ads on Audiogon into any search results for Aerial speakers because for years he just refreshed the same bogus ad and they apparently caught on.

Perhaps a New Jersey member of the forum could make a complaint with the state consumer protection agency. I hope that the members of this forum and that any guests that read this do not give Craig their business.

I would encourage folks in the market to have a listen to Aerial Acoustics speakers if they can. Of the 10-15 pairs of dynamic floorstanders I've demoed in the $2,000 to $12,000 range over the past year or two, they are still my favorite. I've posted about that journey here: Would you pay $11,000 or more for speakers if the cabinet was made in China?? , and here: I've been looking for floor standing speakers with little success! .

On a personal level, Michael Kelly has been very generous with his time, responding to a few emails I had about current and former products. We also spoke for over 30 minutes about my specific room and what he thought would work best from his speaker lineup and a little about electronics to drive them. He is a true gentleman and does not deserve all this nonsense.

 

Yes, I have. I purchased a set of Polk LSiM 707's and a pair of 703's. When the speakers arrived, I immediately took the 707's out and set them up, all was fine. I took one of the 703's out, just to see what it looked like and put it back in the box, as I did not have the bedroom area set up for those speakers yet. I made a huge mistake when I did not check that other speaker. They sat in the box, unopened over the time limit allowed by the vendor to return the speaker, I want to say it was 30 days. When I did open the final box, I found the speaker had simply been cut incorrectly on the top and side and the manufacturer tried to hide the error, extending ever so slightly the problem area with a magic marker to blend into the front and side black frame. I took many pics, sent them to Polk, as my time was expired with the vendor for a quick return, it was a pretty tough ordeal to get them to replace that speaker, as there was no fixing this problem. It took several people down the line to get one that said, oh yes, send that back to us and we will replace, which I did, lesson learned the hard way. Even if you do NOT need to unpack your purchase when received, NEVER wait, you could be caught in the situation I was caught in. No one believed me, even the people at Polk Audio, (the lower phone answering folks). The dealer did not care in the least, I went one day past the 30 days, and they were out of the equation completely, not the least interested in hearing my problems, which I suppose I understand, it was my fault for not checking sooner, a mistake I will never make again.

 

Over the past more than twenty years, I have talked/corresponded on primarily AVS Forum with many folks interested in Aerial speakers, many of whom called Aerial Acoustics and personally talked to Michael Kelly, even if they were looking at buying Aerial used on Audiogon, US Audiomart, etc. Michael is simply a class act and getting to know folks like him as part of this hobby makes it more worthwhile.

 

I have always loved Aerial Loudspeakers and have owned the last version of the 10Ts for many years and they look as beautiful as the day I purchased them. I have been so very interested in the 7Ts and must admit, I was sidetracked by the negative comments by the Theatermax dealership, concerning the Aerial cabinets being made in China. I called Michael Kelly today, and spoke to him personally for about 45 minutes about everything, his new 30Ts, which will not be out for a good while (he is very demanding on providing the very best). I spoke with him about the unfortunate riff between him and Theatermax, and he said he did everything he could to resolve the situation, but at a point he just reached an impasse and had to sever the relationship. To me, Michael has always appeared to be a very gentle, friendly individual, dedicated to his craft, and from my experience, his engineering of loudspeakers is about as good as it gets, right along with Wilson Audio.

I want to mention his take on the Chinese cabinet construction. He made the remark that it is so very unfortunate that there are so many poor outlets for product production in China for every one good one. The people he is working with are indeed that one extreme professional in that part of the world. He went on to say, this one company is literally able to do things with his cabinets, such as shaping the wood as he wants it shaped that he has found virtually impossible to find in the United States. He said what they have done with his 7T is the most remarkable thing he has ever seen. He is very proud of that loudspeaker, the coupling of the two woofers offers more articulate bass than that of one 10" woofer with a huge voice coil. The midrange of that speaker runs circles around my pair of 10Ts and the imaging is simply superb, better than anything he has ever developed.

I then covered the rumors that some of his speaker cabinets made in China have delaminated, and he said this is just not the case. He has actually had minor problems with a few speaker cabinets made in Denmark having that problem, which he promptly replaced, but NONE with his manufacturer in China. He went on to say this company is someone every speaker manufacturer would love to work with, they are the finest craftsmen in making speaker cabinets beyond anything he ever experienced here in the United States. If ever there is a speaker system to zero in on, it is surely the 7T, to date, his crowning glory, it does everything right.

Michael made it very clear he is very protective of his dealer network, he honors his commitments with them, protects them and appreciates their part in his sales efforts. My impression of Michael Kelly is total and complete honesty. We talked about everything, his speaker design, his efforts with ADS, his new project, the 30T, and if I have my way, at some point in time, I WILL have the new 7T in my sound system. He said don't wait for the 30T, it's out in future, and he won't release it until the design is totally and completely perfected, as if I could afford one anyway.

I have always been an Aerial fan and after speaking with Michael, you can double that impression by 10, he just seems totally sincere, honest and a straight shooter, period. He absolutely knows Chinese made products have a bad reputation, and he is not real sure just what to do as he is working with one of the real exceptions that do have exemplary quality control, and design capabilities he simply could not find since he lost his cabinet maker in Denmark. Michael says what this company can do with wood products is mind boggling, they are that good, and the only company that can keep up with his design parameters. I'm sold !

 

indeed i would.

and i'd proudly play bowies "china girl" and thin lizzys "china town" on them.

 

Eventually when the 30Ts become available, if I have any money left, I will get a pair to replace a pair of my 7ts up front. I'll keep you in mind in case you can then afford a pair of used black gloss 7ts!!!

 

I just did a search at AVS Forum at the thread I started back in Jan 2014 when I bought my 5 Aerial Acoustics 7ts. Look at this post by Craig Shumer/Theatermax (VGI on AVS Forum) when I had just got my 5 Aerial 7ts, when he was still an Aerial Acoustics dealer. He does appear to be overjoyed and not complaining at all doesn't he?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-u...zonsky-aerial-jl-audio-upgraditis-thread.html

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post #17 of 203Old 01-30-2014, 09:38 PM

[QUOTE - Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky]

OK. Had to be funny. An attorney I know missed our seminar last week because he is a failed guitar player and goes to a musician's annual meet of some sort, where he took a picture of the van in the above post!!
The Aerial 7s continue to burn-in and sound wonderful. Imaging like the best mini-monitors, Bass, midrange and treble to die for! Considerable improvement over the 9s, which are no slouch. Though only 2.5" less tall than the 9s, the 7ts are also not as wide, weight about 25 pounds each less than a 9, but the 7ts footprint seems like 35-40% of a 9. A remarkable achievement by Michael Kelly and David Marshal of Aerial Acoustics. They indeed are two maestros of high end audio. And give credit to Theatermax/Craig Shumer, who told me that his experience with customers having 7ts was that they were a significant upgrde from the 9s. Craig did not exaggerate! I never could have guesses that such a "smaller", daintier speaker could outshine the 9s, including on bass. With the 7ts, I can viscerally feel the bass considerably more than with the 9s, despite that the 7t only has 2 bass drivers whereas the 9 has four bass drivers! The 7ts appear to be nearly impervious to placement concerns, even not far from a wall they sound great! Playing "Jazzin' Surround" multichannel SACD demo from Telarc-HeadsUp, I have never ever heard it sound so outstanding, with vibrancy, clarity, detail and dancing (that's right, my dancing) everywhere between all of the five 7ts and outside them should I dare to venture so far away! I have on hard drive a CD Steely Dan Aja rip and a Japan SNH SACD Aja rip. Never liked the SACD rip, highs sound so muted, the LP rip redbook seemed better. Not anymore. Now I can hear the background soft treble on Aja just as it is, and the LP rip now sounds veiled in comparison to the SACD. And "Jazzin Surround" previously never sounded quite right, ever since I left behind my CB3 (non-HD) and Theta Compli (prior to blu ray, multi-channel analog SACD output) and also improved my front end vs rear by adding a Gen VIII DAC and Theta Citadel 1.5 amps for front left and right channels. Now as stated above "Jaxzin' Surround" sounds outstanding throughout the entire surround field! The Aerial 7ts are a real keeper - and I am keepin' them. HA! [/QUOTE]


Stevie

I am genuinely thrilled for you my friend. I was slightly nervous because not everyone in the world hears what each one of us hears but in the case of the 7T I think anyone who knows audio would fall in love.

I hate to bore you guys with this story but its a true one and of course Steve has heard it along with others that listen to my rants I have a friend his name is George.. George is a Childrens Dentist and is a serious Audiophile. George played in a band back in college and has a real love for music. George was a customer back in the day but its grown into a really nice friendship. He is into cars as I am and we have a lot in common. What we didn't have in common was taste in Audio Components. George has a room off his master bedroom that maybe 14X24 or so. He turned this into his two channel room as its quiet and secluded and a perfect little listening room. When I first saw the room a few years ago he was playing around with these crazy speakers and digital crossovers that were very complicated and required special setup from the engineers and it was quite frankenstein if you ask me. He played it for me and I looked at him and said George for all the money and time you are spending here with these devices it doesn't sound great and he looked at me and said your right... As friends he finally conceded and said what do I do , I said listen to Aerials and they will change your life. So long story short he got a pair of 7T's which he is running with a Theta Dreadnaught III Amplifier with 4 Mono Cards in it and he is using 2 amp channels into each speaker which equates to lets say 225 each channel X 2 = 450 @ 8 ohms and Aerials are 4 so conservatively 700 Watts per channel. Now the 7Ts are very efficient and I think they are Aerials most efficient speaker but George wanted lots of power so even at low listening levels they will sing. He is using a Bryston BDP2 which I am sure you guys know what that is and a Theta Casablanca 3HD but only using it 2 channel right now so just as a DAC/Preamp. He wanted a future proof Preamp thinking one day he might make this a multi channel room.

I just asked George what the digital frankenstein stuff was because I forgot and trust me I didnt want to remember after I saw him go through hell trying to get this stuff to sound right.. The speakers were called Legend Tikandi and the electronics were called DEQx.. It was a crazy setup that never worked and they kept promising him that they were gonna have more software to fix things but it never worked. The speakers then were pumped up with some modular ESS ribbons on top. Still sounded terrible. The calibration required the engineer from the company to come and get it running but that didnt work either. At the end of the day it didnt sound great to me or George.

Okay roll forward. He gets his 7Ts and Theta stuff all hooked up and he calls me as he self installed and he tells me you got to come over. So there I am in is room all clean and nice with his racks that he built himself and all setup with his stuff and he whips out his Ipad and fires up the BDP2 and plays some tracks and guys I swear in over 20 years of this audio stuff and over 25 visits to CES listening to Audio I never heard anything this good. I know it sounds ridiculous as I have heard systems that cost more than most homes but I am telling you the Aerial 7T's changed my view of the Speaker industry. I don't think they should have been called the 7T. They should be the 12T.. For me and everyone I know that has them , they are better than the 9's in many ways and for myself I would take these over the 20Ts for most environments. They are much more flexible and they image in almost every location in Georges room. 20T's are wonderful but require much more room setup and they are not nearly as forgiving. The bass out of the 7T makes no sense that so much perfect tight controlled sound can emanate from such a reasonably priced speaker..

If you get a chance to make it to your Local Aerial Dealer do yourself a favor and listen to these..

Steve, Thank you so much for sharing your new system with us and please friday tell us how well the F212's integrate with the rest of the system and Dave thank you for helping us old guys in getting Steves subs into place..

Steve , Can you post some pics friday you guys putting this all together and some great shots of the new speakers ? That would be great !!

Thank you guys
Craig

 

This whole Aerial controversy has been a vendetta against Michael Kelly by Theater Max for years. Theater Max lost the right to sell Aerial Speakers and decided to defame the product. Just an ugly incident. Yes the cabinets are made in China but that's not the whole speaker many of the parts are sourced from Europe and the USA. Just like many products on the market it's multi national. Nelson Pass likes to use Toshiba caps in some of his amps does that make it an Asian product? Aerial speakers are assembled in Massachusetts under very strict quality control guidelines. I've talked to many times at Audio Video Therapy where he sold his first speakers. He was more than open where his materials came from and how he put his speakers together. I've owned the Original 6's, 5's and currently the 5T's also still have the CC-3 center which is still one of the best centers around. Unlike many companies which put out various versions of the same speaker (MK-1-MK-5) Michael will not put out a speaker until he's satisfied w/the final product. My original 6's were unchanged for over 10 years.

 

I was considering getting the new Aerial 5ts to use for ceiling speakers. Michael Kelly actually dissuaded me from this, advising that for proper performance and imaging the 5ts should be at minimum 2' from the wall. Michael made it clear that he wasn't getting into Atmos or ceiling speakers and that the 5ts really weren't designed for this. That is, unless I wanted to use drop down mounts from my 12' theater ceiling with the 5ts hanging down. So instead, we are going with Triad Inceiling Silver Rotatable/Sat 9 speakers, msrp $800 each, which my installer will use the built in laser to aim at the MLP (middle listening position). The good news is that Trinnov Master Calibrator Adam Pelz has used Triads for Atmos speakers in Ash Sharma's magnificant "Glitter" theater and his measurements show that their sonics and off axis performance work and sound well with Aerials. Ash has three Aerial 20ts up front, behind his screen! So Michael will not only not put out a speaker until he's completely satisfied with the final product, but he also will not recommend a speaker to you that won't properly place so that it sounds like it should in your environment!

 

Hey Steven, with your amplification do you have "pure" unprocessed DSD you can listen to through five channels coming from a multi-channel SACD player? The other thing I wanted to ask is why have you not considered one of the ultimate United Home Audio tape decks? I know they are through the roof expensive, BUT they are such a pride of ownership piece and sonics out the roof, exquisite sound, expensive, but who's counting!

 

My Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP processes at the native rate input up to 24-192. For most music I will engage Auro 3D which processes at native rate up to 24-96, usually sounds even better using my entire theater speaker system, that's how natural and outstanding Trinnov and Auro 3D are. Keep in mind that I use Trinnov's room correction/optimization as well. Digital room correction really works in the right products, especially Trinnov, and the benefits easily outweight the downsampling of hgher sampling rates. I use ROON for my music software and downsample higher resolution albums as needed on the fly. My SSP is ROON Ready. I'm digital, no tape deck for me. My pride of ownership is the end result of my ongoing theater renovation coupled with my gear, including:

3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP (ROON Ready); 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA; Small Green Computer Sonic Transporter i7 (ROON Core); Western Digital MyCloudPR4100 32TB music server (with 12TB music much in high resolution with almost 6700 albums of which almost 900 are multi-channel (of which about 90% are SACD rips).