Would you pay $11,000 or more for speakers if the cabinet was made in China??

The issue is mainly whether they tell you they make the product in China - many don't. Worse many lie about it or say things like Designed in the USA rather than made in the USA or manufactured in the USA. With Swiss watches - to be able to say Swiss Made a certain percentage of the watch MUST be made in Switzerland. This is not the case with stereo gear.

I lived in Mainland China (Wenzhou) in a major manufacturing center. The reason made in China typically comes with a poor rep is that unless there is an American or European on site 100% of the time checking things you don't know what you get. I saw this with BIG companies like Papa Johns and McDonald's so you can rest assured if it happens to them it will happen to ANY western company operating there.

And what happened - well for the first month Papa Johns is typical American Papa Johns - average pizzas run by a clown. But at least it resembles a typical pizza and the restaurant had things like soap in the bathrooms. Americans trained the staff for a month or so and then left. Then you order the pizza you had in the first month and toppings are cut in half, you see no soap in the washroom or on the mops. In other words it turns to crap.

McDonald's the juggernaut - have an ice-cream - tastes funny - no soap when cleaning the machines. Is the milk even real milk or mixed with wall cauking? Point is the ice cream was awful and not in the usual McDonald's awful but in a new special kind of awful. I know why no one has good "solid" bowel movements in China. I gained 30 pounds in my year in China because I couldn't drink the bottle water (which they were filling up from the tap) so I was drinking imported Coca Cola. When Coke is the healthy thing to drink - well I fulfilled the contract and left.

And there are no controls in China and when there are rules the red party simply gets bribed to look the other way. Companies like Ming Da use fake parts. Instead of expensive Rubycon Caps you get Rudycon caps. D versus B - someone has a bit of dyslexia at the copy plant apparently.

You have to be careful when selecting and pay attention to what is going on on the inside of the products you buy not fancy labels that press touts.

Remember the audio press was absolutely GAGA over the Theta Data Universal CD Player - which IMO is why the industry has such a bad name and gives skeptics a huge trump card.

Theta

Remember this is just ONE item that happened to get caught. People were suckered into spending 10 times the money for a Philips LD player and the press? Well the press were on board.

I guess it's just "alternative honesty"

If you really want a speaker not built in China - have a look at the Audio Note E/LX for $5500. I had this speaker for a couple years and now bought a higher level model. But the E/LX and SPE are some of the best values around for a full range speaker that is easy to drive and have bass flat to 25hz in room. Better if you can stick em in the corners or near wall. If you like the notion of not selling out to the Chinese this is one of your best speaker choices. Plus they don't use that cheap MDF cabinetry either.

 

Let me address your questions:
1. I want to buy what is represented! If a product says it's made in the United States, I expect that the "major" components and material, labor and finishing will be done in the United States, I think that is a reasonable expectation.
2. I want to be able to make an informed decision if a speaker cabinet made in China is as good as a cabinet made in the United States by being informed where it was made, as it is the major part of the product, not a capacitor or a diode, big difference!
3. Yes, in the eyes of many people in the United States, the value of this product would be considered devalued by complete cabinet materials and construction and finishing being done in China, again the product says, made in the United States.
4. I did not ask for anything one way or the other, that is not relevant, what is relevant is the speaker is advertised as made in the United States, and it either is or it isn't and as a customer I should know where 90% of a product is made.
5. In regard to the cost, honestly, how much more could it possibly cost over what it costs now, are you kidding me!

Finally, I don't "feel" anything, I just asked some simple questions, does anyone on the forum know if these cabinets are absolutely made in China, and IF an entire cabinet is constructed in China, assembled in China, glued in China, finished in China, painted in China, which is conservatively 90% of the finished product, should a manufacturer be required to disclose that fact, especially when Made In the United States is stamped on the product. I found Richard Austen's post right after yours very informative, I hope you had an opportunity to view his response.

 

My statement was not about Aerial specifically but companies in general. I read those comments daily in these forums. Someone will ask if a product is made in China. If so, they aren't buying.

 

I heard a rumor that Harbeth's cabinets are made in China ... not the veneering, but the cabinets and then the rest veneered and assembled in the UK. Anybody know if that's true or not?

 

I could not find positive information that Harbeth manufactures in China. They do make statements about all the engineering taking place in the UK. Many of the UK audio companies have taken the tact of designing and engineering the product in the UK and manufacturing ends up in China. That seems to be quite common although most audio companies don't like to broadcast that fact.

 

If I had 10.000 bucks to spend on speakers, I'd try to buy good sounding ones

 

As long as it was built well and sounded good, there's a lot of really good stuff coming out of China nowadays...

 

For $11,000 you should expect the truth.

While I'm certain there are great numbers extremely honorable and competent craftsmen along with great numbers of incompetent and dishonorable craftsmen both in China and the US, it is my recollection of problems like the Chinese drywall incident that would give me pause. At a minimum, the lesser regulation and enforcement in China does create some level of concern that should be reflected in the price and for me would create a need for full disclosure and a guarantee/warranty of some kind.

Chinese drywall - Wikipedia

"Chinese drywall" refers to an environmental health issue involving defective drywall manufactured in China, imported to the United States and used in residential construction between 2001 and 2009 — affecting "an estimated 100,000 homes in more than 20 states."[1]

In samples of contaminated drywall, laboratory tests will detect off-gassing of volatile chemicals and sulfurous gases — including carbon disulfide, carbonyl sulfide, and hydrogen sulfide. The emissions worsen as temperature and humidity rise, will give off a sulfuric (rotten egg) odor and will cause copper surfaces to turn black and powdery, a chemical process indicative of a hydrogen sulfide reaction and an early indication of contaminated drywall. Copper pipes, electrical wiring, and air conditioner coils are affected, as well as silver jewelry.

Homeowners have reported health symptoms including respiratory problems such as asthma attacks, chronic coughing and difficulty breathing, as well as chronic headaches and sinus issues.[2][3][4]

 

These days, the competitive advantage and lower costs of manufacturing in China isn't what it was. Brands are moving to other Asian countries like Vietnam and Malaysia. My Yamaha integrated was made in Malaysia and it's spectacular. In some other cases, brands like Peachtree Audio moved back to North America from China. I also own a Peachtree integrated made in Canada and it's nice, but I prefer my made in Malaysia Yamaha integrated. It's better built, has more analog connections, cheaper by over half a grand and yet it still sounds better to me. Make of that what you will.

This is an interesting issue and there are nuances here. It's not exactly white and black, it's mostly gray. I'll take it on a case by case basis. A Chinese brand like Line Magnetic is some of the finest gear out there bar none. They aren't a western company that moved offshore to cut costs, so there is no sentimentality or jingoistic pride. I think they're great. Rotel is a Japanese company that makes all their gear in China and it's good, cost effective kit to me. It's built well, performs well and it's gear that the average working person can afford. Sometimes we lose sight of the fact that many people just aren't going to spend thousands on an amplifier. I have nothing but good things to say about Rotel gear.

The problem arises when companies build their entire persona and brand on their country of origin, then move offshore for some of their more affordable wares, like Sonus Faber a few years ago. They learned the hard way and their lower end line is manufactured in Italy again. You can't build a brand for decades on quality Italian craftsmanship inspired by Italian luthiers, then start making some of your speakers in China. I mean you can, but the blowback was pretty hard and many Sonus Faber customers were not happy about it. Would a Ferrari be a Ferrari if it wasn't made in Italy? Once upon a time, when you talked about Canadian hifi, Classe Audio would be at the top of the list. The brand just hasn't been the same since they moved production to China. These days, it's like they're dead. The once very active Classe forum at HTGuide is a ghost town. Resale prices continue to drop. Even at up to 40% off msrp, people are still having a hard time selling used Classe gear.

Imagine McIntosh packing up shop from Binghamton and then moving to China after nearly 70 years of "Made in the USA," which is now a big part of their identity. That would be a disaster.

 

I used to make the same argument but I don't anymore. It depends what you're into. Watch guys really care about movements and where they're made and how they're made. A guy not into watches doesn't care about manual watches and just wants something that looks nice. A quartz movement. But you can still buy a good Quartz versus a bad one.

With smartphones - they're pretty much all the same - I mean it's the platform and specs that typically matter so it's all basically a gadget. But even in this field of smartphones you can still pay around 10 times an Apple iPhone 7 or Samsung S7 Edge and buy a Vertu.

To me people who are into audio should care about the designs and who and where it is being made. I like Line Magnetic which is Chinese but I investigated the parts. It's also not priced like typical Chinese companies. It's not an American brand who can't sell their products so decide to get cheap labour in order to stay in business. But this is few and far between.

Kevin Deal shows the difference between Prima Luna (made in China) versus a typical cheap competing tube amplifier at 1:50 on



Now he does sell Prima Luna so you have to know that he chose a competing brand that would really suck in comparison and he uses some hyperbole. Every manufacturer does - for instance he states ALPS pots as if they are God's gifts to pots while Peter Qvortrup of Audio Note will tell you that ALPS is low end junk. It was used in their absolute bottom of the line products years ago. So one man's gold star quality product is another man's vomit inducer.

But the main point it to check - there is just way too much stuff out there selling audio jewelry. That term is exactly it - selling the look and the style the name and the prestige - but under all of it is a $3 brick.

But the main point

 

So what do you think this means?

A call to Aerial would be the way to know. Please post the results of your inquiry.

 

I probably would if the sound was right and the cabinets seems well designed and built.

 

Not in this lifetime

 

This is one of those threads that has implications for a lot of purchases. I like to buy local before American and American before global, just because I like the people I live with to have my support. However, if the better choice is not local or US, I buy from other markets. A good example is my kitchen where my cookware preferences are generally French because the stuff I like from the US (Brooklyn Copper, for example) is out of my league. I usually avoid Chinese and SE Asia subcontinent stuff because of rumors about their metallurgy. I would definitely prefer wild caught seafood to something raised in a filthy farm regardless of location. It is extremely hard to get real facts as to how things are made or produced and pretty much impossible to get the information from labels, advertisements, or product sponsored websites. A whole new array of labeling has come with our desire to buy American: made in America, assembled in America, designed in America, etc. I am waiting for the first label on an item of apparel from another country that says "designed for America." Other countries can make some really nice stuff. The khakis I get from Orvis blow away the made in USA brand I used to wear, but they were made in China. The point of this ramble is if I were in the market for $11,000 speakers and there were a cabinet maker in China that made cabinets clearly beyond compare (noticeably better woods, woodwork, finish, etc. than comparable USA products) and I received clear and verifiable information confirming they were not made with any substance likely to off gas noxious fumes or cause other environmental problems, yeah, I'd consider them. Given the apparent prevailing business models I am doubtful such a product exists, but in theory it could. If I bought those expensive speakers and the cabinetry proved subpar in any way or killed my canary I'd be royally pissed and post on this forum about my wholly unsatisfactory experience. Fortunately for me I am very pleased and not in the market for such speakers. I'm actually not in the market for any stereo components but enjoy the discussions I started following when I was putting together the system I recently acquired. You are a very knowledgeable and thoughtful bunch.

 

I've only ever seen that rumor on this site, and I've found nothing to suggest they are not hand made in England, as advertised. Where is that information coming from?

 

Do you ask that question every time you walk into WalMart??

 

What's the connection between WalMart's cheap factory sourcing and 11 k + audiophile gear? None, I hope.

 

All day long.

 

These Line Magnetic 755i are the real deal. Superlative is the word here.

 

No, I wouldn't pay $11,000 or more for speakers.

 

Not really. Something like 60% of the "value" must be of Swiss origin (this can now include labor costs, as of 2017). This is easily worked around, by getting many of the parts made elsewhere and doing only the final assembly step or QC step in Switzerland. "Swiss Made" doesn't mean much unless you're looking at the $5000 and up pieces.

 

Yes, of course.

 

Couldn't have summed it up any better.

 

I should point out though that they only cost a scant $9000, so perhaps they don't qualify for this thread.

I've never heard them, myself. I'd love to own $9000 speakers, but realize that in the world where I can comfortably afford such things I might just pivot away from audio to partying with models on my yacht.

 

If, in order to be competitive, a manufacture has to outsource all or some of the manufacturing to another country, what recourse does that manufacturer have? If the manufacturer targets marketing to the "buy American" crowd, a lot of other sales would be lost if the price is correspondingly much higher because of cost of local manufacturing. I am not saying the manufacturer should use deceptive labeling, but, absent specific content reporting requirement, I don't think they should have to disclose where the cabinet or any other part is made.

When the Chinese were first making a splash here, I had dinner with a representative of an English speaker manufacturer during CES, and he was terrified by what he saw--incredibly well built Chinese speakers with flawless finishes that were selling at a fraction of the cost of comparable European-built models. Now, fifteen years later, one does not really see much of Chinese speakers here; what we do see is a lot of American and European speakers with parts and some manufacture sourced in China. Each country/region contributes what it does best; whether it is manufacturing or whether it is engineering/design.

Would I fault Aerial or any other company for sourcing cabinets from Asia but supposedly not making a corresponding decrease in the price of its speakers? No. The price is set by a variety of factors, most particularly by the price of comparable models by other manufacturers. If Aerial thinks this model performs like or better than other $11,000 speakers, that judgment will be tested by buyer making their choice.

The Harbeth 40.2s mentioned above are a pretty "plain" looking box speaker with thin panels and very conventional looking drivers. Is it worth its quite high price? Everyone's taste is different, but, having heard it play with really good electronics, I would answer YES. Value, to me, is measured by performance, not cost of parts and manufacture.