Would you pay $11,000 or more for speakers if the cabinet was made in China??

A interesting post from Paul McGowan, founder and President of PS Audio, on "Made In USA":

Made in USA

Especially interesting is Paul's stating that "The one big elephant in the room I haven’t mentioned is the electronics themselves: semiconductors, vacuum tubes, capacitors, resistors, integrated circuits. These are, with few exceptions, no longer made in the States—which means any company using electronics can never label their products as made in the USA."

Apparently everyone of us has electronic products which, even if assembled in the USA, are far from entirely "made in USA".

And that's exactly why for me its quality, price and sonics that matter the most, not where its made. Of course, some electronic components, such as Cardas binding posts, are actually manufactured and therefore made in the USA, and Cardas has its own copper manufacturing here in the USA. Note that Aerial as far as I know has always used binding posts manufactured by Cardas, as have many speaker manufacturers. But no matter where the cabinets are made or assembled, as Paul of PS Audio states, the electronics themselves with few exceptions

 

I heard a pair of Aerial’s once in Montreal and they were pretty amazing. I have limited knowledge of the brand, and have no idea who Craig is, but that Audiogon ad is asinine.

 

A number of us Aerial luvers who post here at this thread and also at AVS Forum Aerial thread reported misleading Aerial buy and sell ads by disgruntled ex-Aerial dealer Craig Shumer (Theatermax) to Audiogon and this apparently resulted in Audiogon pulling the ads, as theys are gone (the ads still had some days to run). Although Shumer continues to list Aerial as a brand he carries on his website (Brands - TheaterMax ) which continues to be false and misleading. In the above posts in this thread (and over at the AVS Forum Aerial thread), two different persons contacted Shumer interested in buying used Aerial speakers only to be told by Shumer that the speakers were not accessible at some warehouse or something like that with Shumer trying to sell them another brand of speakers and badmouthing Aerial speakers; and one person a few years ago (after Shumer lost his Aerial dealership) says he called Shumer to buy Aerials but instead was talked into buying a different speaker brand, but that recently after hearing Aerials at a friends he bought a pair of 6ts from someone else and loves them much better than the speakers he had bought from Shumer.

 

I just ran across this thread discussing many speaker and audio components manufactured in China. Interesting and quite an extensive list.


The top five Chinese made audio companies today? [Archive] - AudioAficionado.org

 

There are plenty of brands not made in China but I bet they get at least some components from China. Plenty, UK flying the flag, on their products that are well known to be made in China. Much of the more affordable products made in China. There are plenty UK made or assembles products over which I would rather buy made in China products because I don't like the sound. Naim and Linn at the top of my list. I have some large Wharfedale speakers made in China and despite their relatively modest pricing the finish is above excellent. Chinese factories making UK and US brands are very capable of matching or exceeding UK and US produced products in terms of quality. I dare say the same goes for many whole owned Chinese companies.

 

As this thread was started thanks to a disgruntled ex-Aerial dealer spouting vengeance BS to someone who didn't know any better and believed him at the time (the ex-dealer still lists Aerial as a line he carries on his website, 5 years after losing the line, and he still continues to advertise on Audiogon to buy used Aerial speakers and advertises used Aerials for sale as well, and I have been told by at least 3-4 folks that they called him to buy Aerials and he badmouthed Aerial and tried to sell them something else he carries. Well, this article by Aerial's longest dealer since like 1991, Audio Advice, tells the story about the quality and custom design of Aerial speakers, even the drivers are custom designed for Aerial:

Aerial Acoustics Speaker Series Overview

 

I honestly avoid giving my money to China anytime I am able to. I know it is unavoidable sometimes, but I can't in good faith give them money if there is a second option.

 

Politics has changed considerably since this thread was started some years ago. Many excellent audio companies have had some China or other Asian manufacturing and some of these speakers have been of excellent quality, perhaps some not so much, no different than any speakers fully made in the US.

Now there are solid reasons to bring manufacturing back to the USA - this will take time. So many audio and video components are made in China, pharmaceuticals, and so much other stuff.

On the other hand, China has many times the population of the US, and the Asian market for speakers is considerably larger arguably than ours in the US alone.

I think when it comes to speaker cabinet manufacture, wherever they are made, it comes down to quality and quality control - and more recently geopolitical considerations vs financial considerations (it may be the speaker we want at a good price is simply not mostly USA made or the USA made one costs too much more to afford).

Its too bad this thread was started in the first place by an ex-dealer of a top notch well respected audiophile speaker company to get revenge against the company for the dealer having lost his dealership. But this thread can now continue on thanks to recent geopolitical concerns and Covid-19 regarding whether you prefer to buy a speaker manufactured as fully as possible in the USA as opposed to even buying a quality speaker with say a cabinet manufactured outside the US, Asia or China. And I hope that folks can separate any concerns they have against the Chinese government from hopefully not being prejudiced against Chinese or Asian folks, as I have known so many over the years and almost all of them have been absolutely wonderful.

 

We've discussed this before and have both posted in the thread (one example), but I think it's important to note some of the marketing-speak used in this article/video. This is coming from someone who still has a soft spot in his heart for Aerial Acoustics, as I've posted favorably about their speakers (especially the 7T) on this and other forums.

Drivers

"[T]he Aerial team designs all of their own speaker drivers, then has them made to their performance specifications at companies in Norway, Germany, Denmark, or the US." This is disingenuous. From what I have gathered, the drivers are not "custom designed" but are more "custom tweaked" versions of standard drivers offered by Scanspeak (Denmark) and SB Acoustics (US). Aerial did not "develop" them.

Tweeter

The tweeter across the line is clearly based on the Scanspeak Discover R2604/8330. See the white label on the tweeter below. The only visible difference is the different wave guide (black in the default vs. silver (aluminum) below).


(source)

I've been told by one dealer that the tweeter is the same Scanspeak Revelator tweeter that is used by Magico in one of their $30,000 speakers. This is blatantly false; it's a customized version of a $65 Discovery tweeter.

Midrange

This is the "US" part of the quote above. The midrange drivers in the 6T and 7T are made by SB Acoustics. SB Acoustics is mentioned specifically in both the Stereophile and Absolute Sound reviews of the 7T.

7T: The 7T has a 6" version with a papyrus-blend cone, 1.25" voice coil, and magnesium chassis. This appears to be a customized version of the SB Acoustics SB17NRX2C35, which has a proprietary "paper" (i.e., papyrus) cone, 35.5mm (1.39") voice coil, aluminum chassis, and sells for $65. I see differences in specs for the chassis and voice coil here.

6T: The 6T has a 4.8" midrange, with papyrus-blend cone, magnesium frame, and 1" voice coil. This appears to be a customized version of the SB Acoustics SB12MNRX25-04, which has an aluminum chassis, paper cone, and a 1" voice coil. I see differences in specs for the chassis. Compare the driver in the photo below to the driver in this video. Hard to find now and isn't on Madisound, but I found this site which sells this driver for $52 each.


(source)

Bass

7T: The 7T has dual 7" Scanspeak drivers, with "rigid bilaminate composite cones." Based on what I've been able to find, this looks like a customized version of the Scanspeak 18W, a $180 driver. The bilaminate composite could be the air-dried paper / carbon fibre cone, per the Madisound description. Madisound states the 18W has a 42mm voice coil (1.65") and an aluminum, while Aerial's website says the 7T woofer has a 1.5" voice coil and has a magnesium chassis. Like with the midrange, I see differences in the voice coil and chassis here.

6T: The 6T has dual 5.9" drivers with magnesium frames, papyrus-blend cones, and 1.25" voice coils. Seeing papyrus-blend again screams SB Acoustics. It looks this is a customized version of the SB17NRX2C35, which has an aluminum chassis, paper cone, and 35.5mm (1.39") voice coil. Like above, differences in the voice coil and chassis here. Compare the SB Acoustics driver linked above to this one:


(source)

Driver Final Thoughts
At Madisound prices for the above, each pair of 7T would use: ($64.80 * 2 for tweeters) + ($64.80 * 2 for midrange) + ($182.40 * 4 for bass) = $988.80. Let's round to $1,000 and ignore bulk discounts. The 7T now retails for $11,000.

The same exercise for the 6T: ($64.80 * 2 for tweeters) + ($52.00 * 2 for the midrange) + ($64.80 * 4 for bass) = $492.80. Let's round to $500 and ignore bulk discounts. The 6T now retails for $6,800.

Cabinet
The article says that after the Danish cabinet maker went out of business, Aerial had to find a replacement. "They wound up finding a custom plant in Asia . . . ." Just say China. We all know they are made in China. This isn't new information at all!

People's xenophobia aside, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Previous post here: Would you pay $11,000 or more for speakers if the cabinet was made in China?? . Michael posted years ago on AVS Forum about the switch and made clear that the current maker was the only he could find to reliably meet manufacturing tolerances, and made clear that they use non-toxic glues and no formaldehyde, which Audio Advice also points out in their article. Unfortunately, AVS Forum recently changed their forum formatting, so my old bookmarks are no longer to the same posts so I could not locate Michael's posts there. Obfuscating the point by saying "Asia" instead of saying exactly why they are using what Chinese manufacturer they are is probably hurting more than helping.

Having spent time with the cabinets and knocking on them in-person, they are very heavy and solidly-braced. I also love the strong magnets used on the front grill and how it covers the entire front face of the speaker, not just the drivers. One can see how well the cabinet is constructed by viewing the Stereophile cabinet resonance measurements:


(source)

Conclusion
It is truly unfortunate what Craig Shumer of Theatermax has done for the Aerial brand and what he immaturely continues to do with his Audiogon ads (using outdated photos, or even Aerial stock photos or others' USAM photos). He continues to list in his Audiogon ad descriptions and on his website that he's an Aerial dealer. I imagine there are multiple legal claims that Aerial could bring if they wanted, both in tort and trademark infringement, but Michael's probably too nice to worry about it.

I also think that Audio Advice putting out a marketing piece like this with inaccurate or disingenuous information does Aerial no favors. Hopefully they'll get some better press coverage whenever Michael releases the speaker he's been working on for years.

 

So, what's your cell phone of choice? Or computer?

 

Please look again at the beginning of his last sentence “ I know it is unavoidable sometimes,”

 

You know it’s unavailable, writes the guy who buys shirts made in China from Irish Linen and Supima cotton.

 

I always buy shirts and cotton-wear made in Sri Lanka, India, Vietnam and Bangladesh, not from China.

 

Wow, this thread has more legs than I could have foreseen! It occurs to me that the whole MIC conundrum has several clearly distinct but sometimes overlapping issues. There are certainly concerns over the way China runs itself and treats its people And the way it conducts trade. There are strong sentiments to support USA jobs and, to a lesser but still substantial degree, American (especially Canadian) and western European jobs. There are concerns over use of unregulated and possibly environmentally dangerous materials. There are concerns over cost and value. I am sure there are more. In my experience a company that is obsessive about quality control can have extremely high quality goods made in China, and a company that is slipshod can make slipshod products anywhere. As we roll through the process of grappling with the economic effects of the pandemic I certainly sense more interest in promoting MIUSA, and I hope that we will also see more Black hi fi geeks who are also entrepreneurial come onto the scene. As long as there are great choices that are MIUSA or western Europe, even if the MIC products are as good, it seems that the scales tip away from China. A last thought I ask myself is whether our love for western European goods, especially British goods, has some underlying systemic racism element? I'd like to think not, but in these times it seems an appropriate thing to ponder (mused he, considering British speakers).

 

As it already was mentioned it is impossible to build "100% single country origin speakers", with exception of probably China itself.
My speakers does not have a single part (including crossover elements) which is made in China - but for example drivers feature Neodymium magnets -and there are pretty much no other source for that material other than China. And so on.
It is pretty well known quote of economist Leonard Reed, explaining that no one can make a pencil.
Think of all the persons and the numberless skills that went into their fabrication: the mining of ore, the making of steel and its refinement into saws, axes, motors; the growing of hemp and bringing it through all the stages to heavy and strong rope; the logging camps with their beds and mess halls, the cookery and the raising of all the foods. Why, untold thousands of persons had a hand in every cup of coffee the loggers drink! (Read, 1958)
Things only got more complicated since )).

 

Much better ! No child slavery there .

 

Now, that reminds me of someone, somewhere ...

 

Bill requiring retailers to disclose products made in China introduced in US Congress - The Economic Times

I have been waiting for such law for a long time. This will help expedite my online shopping ...

 

As long the product is well made and performs at or above the price, I could care less where it's made.

 

If you want to make china rich why not?
Now is that with or without the coupon?

 

To answer the thread topic, yes I would and I have done

 

Personal choice, I'm not buying made in China. They make some really high end stuff, but not for the export market.

 

Would you pay $11,000 or more for speakers if the cabinet was made in China??

Now, more than ever NO!

I said NO earlier in the thread, but now the NO is in bold and larger font.