Would you pay $11,000 or more for speakers if the cabinet was made in China??

I would be completely comfortable buying Chinese gear made by a passionate Chinese company, like Line Magnetic. I would also be fine buying lower priced (relatively speaking) gear like KEF LS50's, knowing that one of the reasons they're such a bargain is they're made in China. BUT, and I know this is somewhat arbitrary, I simply would NOT buy those Aerial's at $11K if the cabinets were made in China. Maybe that's silly, but it's just the way it is (for me). There's enough great gear out there that it's simple enough to vote with my feet.

 

In my experience, any brand the touts their domestic engineering or design is using weasel wording to obscure offshore manufacturing.

I'm not going to be in the market for speakers anytime soon, but if I was I'd bee looking at the secondary market for American, Canadian and EU manufactured speakers.

Says the guy who pre-divorce was proud of his bottom of the line Paradigm Atom V2 based surround system, entirely Engineered AND manufactured in Canada.

 

If you ever visit a music instrument shop in China, you'll quickly realize that they are more than capable of building top quality gear. Handmade instruments like the Pipa or Guzheng are literally works of art for both the eyes and ears and they've been working with wood for hundreds if not thousands of years. What's sad is that "global" companies hire them to do cheap work and aren't willing to pony up to tap into what they are truly capable of. An $11k handmade pair of cabinets from China would probably sound incredible, but it would be on you to do research to find the right guy.

 

A couple of years ago, Esoteric lowered their prices on at least some of their line by a fair bit, so while it may be rare, it can actually happen.

D.D.

 

From what I can gather, it's the enforcement that is the problem, this one company would be considered small potatoes and therefore not worth the effort, that is the view.

 

Agreed. However, the OP's issue is a manufacturer fraudulently claiming the product is made in one country, when it is actually made in another. I don't know if that is in fact what's happened, but if it is I agree it's a problem.

 

I did have an opportunity to speak to the owner of Theatermax LLC in Boca Raton, Florida, Mr. Craig Shumer. I found Mr. Shumer extremely knowledgeable and I assume an Aerial dealer for several years. We talked for probably 10 minutes as he had another engagement, but what he had to say was so very interesting. Craig not only carried Aerial but several other brands and he said he has listened and critiqued so many speakers through the years, he has lost count. He mentioned all the great ones I was familiar with and many I was not familiar with, and it was nice to pick his brain. He had no problems with me repeating what he told me, and said he had many customers that would like to get on here and share, concerning this manufacturing issue.
From what he said, wood products made in China need to be CARB compliant (California Air Resources Board), obviously and especially in the state of California. Being CARB compliant has everything to do with fumes, emissions, pollution, glues used, and much more, complicated indeed. He went on to say to have your product compliant costs money, a good bit of money, something some companies just do not wish to deal with, however if a product is not compliant, there can certainly be liability, again, especially in California, if the product was constructed and finished in China. I explained to Craig I have the 10T's which he really praised, as they represented in his opinion the finest cabinet work, and I explained I wanted to make a change and was trying to find the older Aerial model 9's or if that was not possible, the 7T's. It was then he told me some of his customers with the model 9's were experiencing straight out delamination issues with the 9's and various finish failures, as well as the 7T and then the 6T, he said the cabinets being constructed in China began on the series 9's, and the complaining customers has been a real drain on him, which is how all this came out. He also said that now the cabinets are not only constructed in China, but the drivers are shipped there and assembly is done there as well. I say this to encourage people to check these things out. I know at this point in time, I am ready to change horses! He did say there is a newly designed loudspeaker out that is just beyond anything he has ever heard, he has it in his store and compared to speakers costing thousands of dollars more and he said, he has NEVER heard a loudspeaker like this, ever, the clarity is simply the best he has ever listened to, with no exceptions. The loudspeaker he is talking about is the brand new Paradigm PERSONA series. He said you don't even have to go above the model 3F, as this speaker resolves music like no speaker he has ever auditioned because of these Beryllium drivers, midrange and tweeters. I will leave a link for you to see the presentation, I know I will look into this for sure! Hope this helps someone out there! Oh, forgot one thing, Crafted in Canada

Here is the link: Paradigm® | Persona Series, Luxury Performance Audio - Crafted in Canada

 

I had a pair of the Aerial Model 6s, don't recall the series, but the cabinet work was excellent. It's a shame to lose that quality of workmanship.

 

Would I spend $11k on Chinese speakers? no, nor would on any speaker.
If my LS5/9s ever die, which they won't , I'll be back to Quad 57s or 63s, For less than $1500 I can get
a stunning pair.

However......
Prima Luna Prologue 2
Hifiman HM-901
Revelation VTX64 guitar, all things I own, made in China, are superb and extremely well built.

Most Quad fans I know think the Chinese built electrostatics are the best ever, but that speaks
more on lousy British quality control more than anything else.

 

And you've leapt straight to the most fallacious part of the argument. The cabinet is not 99% of a speaker. I'd say the design is 99%. The cabinet is just a component.

Few loudspeaker manufacturers make their own cabinets, most go to specialist cabinet factories who churn out boxes for multiple speaker manufacturers. The shop I cited earlier that closed, for example, I saw photos of their remaining inventory and there were finished boxes for Linn, JBL, Stirling Broadcast, and maybe a dozen other manufacturers whose names escape me at the moment. Whether Aerial was one of them or not I could not say, to be honest I can't even recall if the factory was in Denmark or Germany. I do know that a number of speaker companies were left scrambling for a new source for their boxes.

 

Buyer beware. Do your homework

 

Some of us would argue that better sounding systems improve our lives

But you should choose this stuff based on expected resale value - everyone looks just at the price but not the net cost. I purchased the Audio Note J/Spe speakers back in 2003/4 and sold them December 2016. So 13 years of happiness. I sold them for 17% more money than I originally paid. Part of that is that like a Rolex people desire products that are hand built in the country they say they're built in and that being Europe. The other part is that the speaker sell for 20+ years and the current prices keep rising and rising so it haleps the resale value immensely. Once a product is discontinued or replaced by a new model number the old one's value plummets like a stone on the second hand market.

I can sell my Audio Note OTO phono SE for more than I paid as well - also 13 years old.

So when you look at crazy things like $11k speakers - well it depends - if you choose the right ones then 10 years from now you may just be out as little as inflation. Or they may only sell for $2k.

Still you could buy $3k speakers that in 10 years you get $400 for which cost you $2,600. Or you could buy $10k Speakers that get you $9k in 10 years. Your cost is $1,000.

 

"Britain's Most Famous Loudspeaker":


Note the Union Jack on the plate:




....100% Made in China.

Very sneaky!

 

Excellent point, though you fail to account for the opportunity cost. The cost would actually be more than $1,000. But, still, point taken. To me, the resale is important. And the Rolex analogy is a good one. I've made a similar point regarding McIntosh gear.

 

Sneaky, yes. Fraudulent, no. It does not read "Made in England" at least.

 

Exhibit A for weasels wording.

 

PMC actually acquired a cabinet builder not far away from the facility where they build their speakers - until then they had been building their own enclosures. Fit and finish is better for them having made that decision compared to the old products.

D.D.

 

For better or for worse, the supply chain for most manufactured products have moved to China. Anyone trying to make anything in the USA is swimming against this tide and, frankly, they are probably leaving lots of money on the table while doing so. China is a country with many audiophiles. An industry of surprising variety and depth is emerging there. Why shouldn't American designers take advantage of these developments to bring their products to market?

That being said, I'm in the vintage guitar market, where American made instruments command much higher prices than anything made in Asia. While there have been many great Asian made guitars, the market has spoken, and American instruments are prized over Asian. The same is probably true of audio products. Asian-made will loose much more resale value than American-made.

 

I can see how people can think both ways. Heck I have "non wealthy" friends (because we stick together) that spend thousands a year hunting deer. That's what I keep telling myself when I contemplate buying a 10k pair of speakers, but then I think "dang" I could never drive those with my electronics, and the madness is gone.maybe One day

 

Theatermax hasn't told you the whole story. The reason he doesn't sell Aerials any more, he was caught selling speakers out the back door. This was told to me by a close personal friend of Michael Kelly who has known him for over 20 years. Craig has a personal vendetta against Aerial. If you look it up there are plenty of complaints about how he does business. The thread on AVS got pretty nasty. Low class is to good a description for Theatermax.

 

If the prototype is designed and built in England wouldn't the Chinese just be copy machines? It is cleverly misleading though.

 

Wow,

I am so glad I got a few calls about this thread and I had a chance to read through it tonight. I had no idea this was happening but some great people on this forum contacted me and told me this was going on.

So first I have to address this with Threshold.
After 25 years of business I am a bit concerned about your writings. You mention plenty of complaints about me ? Please share this with me so I can address this. This is really slanderous and I am sure you didn't expect me to read this. I don't think Steve told you anything like you have written here. He would never do such a thing.

We do not have a vendetta against Michael in any way. So we are all clear I was Michaels #1 dealer for many years. I worked with Michael to Promote and expand his brand and we helped him grow Aerial from the early days. We even policed and helped him go after internet sellers that were tarnishing the brand. Michael was not very techie and and he asked us over the years to help him police the brand and keep things running smoothly which we did for him regularly.

The problems started when we sold a pair of 6T's to a customer and shortly after he received them the Veneers started to lift on the cabinet and the sound was not what he had hoped for. He contacted Aerial and Michael told him the Veneers are not covered under warranty and that this is normal for a veneered cabinet. The customer inquired about where the speaker was made and Michael told him it was 100% in the USA. It turns out the customer has a family member who works for customers and they looked into the customs records for Aerial and discovered that not only are the cabinets completely made in China and they don't have Carb compliancy but what is worse is that they got the box weights for the contents of the containers and it turns out that the speakers are being fully assembled in china. Drivers and All.

Michael was asked by many people about the Made in USA plate on the Back of his speakers and he will not talk about it. He thinks this is okay to do. I can tell you that after the FTC and other agencies were contacted about this, its completely illegal and eventually he will either pay fines, go to jail or stop doing this.

Aerial was known for a long time as a company that used Denmark Made Cabinets with incredible veneers and amazing cabinet construction and this is what made him a viable brand. His drivers of course he bought from other companies but he used decent products and he was able to produce a nice sounding speaker with Danish cabinets and it was final assembled in the US. This was the case years ago when his heart was in the brand. He then decided to go into the electronics business and he made a huge financial investment in Gato Audio which turned out to be a disaster for him and he lost a lot of money with this brand. This was around the time he brought everything to China.

After a great run of quality speakers for so many years and a fantastic story of Danish cabinets and hand assembled in USA why would you take your manufacturing to China ? GREED people GREED.. Thats all there is to it.

We are a 25 year old company with quality products and great customers. The last thing we need is a Vendor that lies to their customers, Lies to their dealers and overall doesn't stand behind their products. With 400 Speaker brands in the world to choose from do you think there is a shortage of speakers we can carry ? Nope not even a little bit. We like to work with great brands that stand behind their products and have real stories of passion and design. Aerial is not one of them.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject.

Thanks
Craig Shumer
Theatermax LLC

 

I have enjoyed Aerial products for many years, and was just getting ready to purchase another pair of Aerial speakers, when I just happened to see the posts from the owner of Theatermax, which obviously gave me pause, as I always thought Aerial loudspeakers were 250% designed and manufactured in the United States. I am glad that you posted and I want to ask you a question or three, which can make things so much more clear to me. As you have a personal friend of Michael Kelly, would you help clarify or dispute what this representative of Aerial has said, here are my questions:

1. Are all of the Aerial speakers, specifically all of the older model 9's, and the newer model 6T, 7T, and 20T manufactured 100% in the United States as the speaker plate says they are?
2. Is there any building, gluing, or finishing of any Aerial speaker cabinets done in China ?
3. Are any of the above mentioned models not only being initially built in China (the cabinets), but are the drivers, crossovers and internal parts of these speakers being assembled in China in any way?

I'm sure your close friend can clear this up, because what you just posted is a great deal of information about this company Theatermax, someone must be terribly close to this situation to be able to comment on selling things out the back door. There is really no need to get into that mix, but if you would just be so kind as to answer the three questions I asked, as you know a great deal about this, that would be wonderful. I would love to know that Aerial has not and is not assembling or building or gluing or screwing, or painting or finishing these particular models in China, pieces I would call very high quality elite loudspeakers. I have speakers on smaller systems that were partially or fully made in China, but I knew that going into the purchase, and they are $300.00 inexpensive, disposable speakers, nothing like an Aerial Acoustic Loudspeaker, which I have always put on a pedestal, considering it to be one of the finest speakers made. Thanks so much for you post and input, and I will be watching for your response. I really want to find some of the model 9's, it's the perfect fit for me.

 

But hey, designed and engineered in England.

 

A product gets made in China? Fine by me. No issues with that whatsoever.