Wow and flutter, etc. Tape Speed Issues - Tone Poet / Blue Note 80th anniversary vinyl LP problems.

I’m not hearing what you’re hearing but I do believe you and totally understand some are sensitive to it. I loved the Andrew Hill Black Fire reissue as well. For me, even if I could hear any warble it would only reduce my rating from a 9.9/10 to a 9.8.

 

Just picked up Bill Evans Trio 64 and the piano warble was noticeable . (Which is why I reopened this thread to see if others found the same)

However I didn't notice the warble on Mingus X5. Will have a re-listen

 

Yes, it's there. I discussed it briefly on the Verve thread and took it to PMs with @Kimiimacman . It's a weird one though. We both realised that it's pretty noticeable on speakers at low volumes, but hardly noticeable on headphones or louder.

Anyway, we dismissed it as probably tape issues.

 

The warble on Evans's piano is on the tape. It is audible in all digital versions as well.

 

"Mood Indigo" on Mingus x 5 is definitely wobbly. As is typical with this problem, it mainly impacts the piano.

Not a big deal.

 

Yep. It’s on the AP 45 as well

 

Ah, good to know!

 

It was enough for me to return it.

 

So that album is just not worth listening to because of that?

 

The album is great. I already have a listenable pressing. I bought this looking to upgrade. There’s a false dichotomy that keeps happening on this forum- an implication that you can have this new reissue or you will have no way to listen to an album. Lots of other pressings and CDs of Mingus x5 out there!

In this case it took me right out of the performance and I’d rather have my thirty something dollars back than have this pressing. Others can live with it and that’s a personal choice.

 

People are saying its on the tape so I assumed it would be on every version.

 

It’s not on the 1995 pressing and if you go back a page someone states that it’s not on their mono original. I believe this is likely a tape issue, just that whatever happened to it happened this century.
Somewhat related but after one listen of the new Mingus Black Saint it seems problem free. I wasn’t able to give it my full attention at all times however.

 

This phenomenon has been mentioned previously in this thread and it applies in varying degree to all cases I've heard. The theory is that it's easier to identify the warble on speakers because of the natural "room reverb" which makes the warble "clash" with the frequencies of reflected sound in the listening room.

 

So is the warble on Trio 64 on ALL VERSIONS of the recording going back to the original issue of the LP? Honestly asking, as I'd love to pick it up if there's no more warble than on every prior version.

 

I do not have an original copy but all the versions that I have heard, including the digital releases, have the warble on the piano.
According to Fremer, it is also on the original vinyl release, but I cannot confirm this.
Look at Fremer's comments in his review on analog planet.

Bill Evans Trio '64 Brought A Light Touch to a Dark Time

 

Yep, I noticed the warble on Mingus X5 but only on Moon Indigo. What's funny is that it was definitely worsened by the fact that my copy was severely off centered. After I managed to center it by filing the spindle hole the warble became a bit less noticeable, but yeah it's there. Nothing really bothering though, and definitely not a deal breaker as Andrew Hill's Black Fire was.

 

I don't own all of the questionable ones but I own several and Black Fire is the only one where it really stands out. It's really obvious.

 

I was wondering if there is a complete list of Blue Note reissues that have tape issues?

Just so I know which ones to be cautious of.

 

I believe someone compiled a list and posted it here. Try to do a search within this thread.

 

With pitch issues

TP

Donald Byrd - Chant
Andrew Hill - Black Fire
Lee Morgan - Cornbread
Dexter Gordon - Clubhouse

BN80

Herbie Hancock – Takin’ Off
Dexter Gordon – Doin’ Allright
Kenny Dorham – Una Mas
Jutta Hipp – Jutta Hipp with Zoot Sims
Herbie Hancock – Inventions & Dimensions
Joe Henderson – In ‘n Out
Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers – Indestructible
Freddie Hubbard – Hub-Tones
Johnny Griffin – Introducing Johnny Griffin
Freddie Hubbard – Open Sesame

With no pitch issues

TP

Lou Donaldson Alligator Boogaloo
Bobby Hutchinson - The Kicker
Lee Morgan - The Cooker
Herbie Hancock - The Prisoner
Stanley Turrentine - That's Where Its At
Wayne Shorter - Etcetera
Grant Green - Nigeria

BN 80

John Scofield - Hand Jive
Grant Green – Grant’s First Stand
Robert Glasper – Canvas
Bobbi Humphrey – Blacks And Blues
Reuben Wilson – Blue Mode
Donald Byrd - Ethiopian Knights
Lonnie Smith – Think!

Also Basra and Chet Baker have issues to one degree or another.

I personally dont hear much of anything on some of these like Open Sesame.

 

This is extremely important for the ones that are simply making choices based on a list posted on an online forum.

Yes, those titles have issues, but a lot of those (I'd say most) aren't that bad to begin with. The spectrum of how bad the issue is is quite big. Black Fire is probably the worst, but it's almost alone there (Inventions and Dimensions alongside maybe?).

If you guys have the chance, please listen before deciding not to go for it. Buy from Amazon and return if you end up not bearing the issues.

 

Thank goodness those that know well confirm what i hear at times and that its tape warble ... i live with it but do wonder if its my tinnitus making things sound off or just my ears ..i can relax and enjoy now knowing what i'm hearing is really there ...

 

Yeah, most are quite tolerable, and the masterings otherwise are excellent.

Still, if you're very sensitive to pitch warble, particularly with the two mentioned, be careful.

 

Which was the last issued pre-1970s title with pitch/flutter problems? I.e. from what release date all titles appear to be problem free?

 

I think the problem was resolved by 2020.