Wow & Flutter Rega P1

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by dastinger, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Hey guys,

    Suddenly, my Rega P1 (one year and a half), began having a lot of fluctuation in speed. Like, a lot. It was unlistenable.

    I removed the sub platter, installed it again, and it got a lot better so there was something wrong with either that or the belt. Thing is, now I don't know if it's just in my head, but it still seems like it's not right.

    I downloaded the RPM Speed & Wow app for Android, used it to test speed and it's giving me a 0.55% fluctuation which is obviously a lot.

    Now, I know this app is probably not 100% correct so I'm looking for someone to test the app for me on their turntable and tell me what are the results. It would be perfect if someone used the same phone as me (Galaxy S10) but that's probably asking too much.

    Could anyone help me, please?

    Thanks!
     
  2. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is"

    Location:
    united kingdom
    Might be teaching granny to suck eggs....but is the platter absolutely level?
     
  3. Ontheone

    Ontheone Drifting Towards the Dead Wax

    Location:
    Indianapolis
    I haven't used these but you could try one for $24. Audio-Technica AT6180a Strobe Disc listed by numerous retailers.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Thanks for chiming in! If I use the level in the middle (on top of the spindle), the bubble is centered. It is not centered if I put it on the 12 o'clock position and in the 9 o'clock position. Should it be?
     
  5. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is"

    Location:
    united kingdom
    That is the downside with a "bubble"....very difficult to establish levels across the board and planes....suggest you borrow or buy a better level?
     
  6. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is"

    Location:
    united kingdom
    Sometimes it is easier to "level" the platform upon which the turntable sits....once achieved simple shimming can ensure the table is level on all planes.
     
  7. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    I get that. Thing is, there wasn't anything wrong before, nothing changed, the TT is in the same place and it started suddenly happening.
     
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  8. Davey

    Davey this is the way, step inside

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Provided you aren't just listening to a bunch of off-center records, check the usual belt-drive stuff ...

    Remove the platter and check that the motor isn't loose.

    Remove the belt and run it through your fingers feeling for any flat spots or other anomalies

    Clean the belt, motor pulley and subplatter

    Turn on power and listen for motor noise, maybe it's time for a drop of oil

    Install the platter without belt and give it a spin, see how long it continues to spin, maybe it's time for a light lube

    Install belt and power on motor and observe how smoothly belt moves, shouldn't be any obvious vibrations in the belt as it moves around motor pulley and platter
     
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  9. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    I'll download one of these from Vinyl Engine and check how it works, thanks!
     
  10. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    I'll do it in a minute and even record the motor running so everyone can see the belt's behaviour.
     
    Leonthepro likes this.
  11. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Just realize that even on a good day under perfect conditions, a typical RP1 won't even be able to meet 70s broadcast radio standards. If you listen to rock and pop music, might not be a big deal depending on how pitch/speed sensitive you are. Even then you may still notice the pitch variation on a piano solo LP, for example.
     
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  12. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Is the belt slipping or something? Not sure if we could tell from watching.
     
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  13. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    When I get these symptoms, I check the subplatter and bearing for any muck, the I clean the belt and belt surfaces. The belt surfaces I clean with basic alcohol on cotton. The belt gets a warm water bath with a little Dawn (like very, very little) and a rinse. I then take a little talc and put the clean, dry belt in a bag with the talc. Don't use baby powder, get talc like at a pool supply or a stationer or wherever. Clean you hands, put the belt back on and it will most likely fix the issue.
     
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  14. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    I'm testing with records I know for years so that's not the case.

    Well, you may be right, but I didn't notice it before so it's probably gotten worse.

    Yeh, I tried everything @Davey suggested and nothing helped. And the belt seems fine.

    Also, I noticed that at 45 RPM, the differences aren't as noticeable and even the phone app says the wow is 0.2% (whereas at 33RPM it constantly says that it's somewhere around 0.5%).

    I don't have talc at home, but have isopropylic alcohol. Do you think using baby powder would hurt something or would it just not work as good?

    I'll do it later tonight and test. Thanks!
     
  15. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Also, could anyone please test the app? Just put the phone on top of the spindle (a 7" adapter helps with that) and run the app.
     
  16. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    I can do that on my RP1 yes. Later today.
     
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  17. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Thank you! Please let me know.
     
  18. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Which app did you use by the way? And what phone?
     
  19. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    RPM Speed & Wow on a Samsung Galaxy S10, but the results have been the same throughout every phone I tested it with. Also, the 0.5% wow dropped to a consistent 0.22% which is a lot lower but, I still hear issues on pianos and acoustic guitars. I'm 99% sure it wasn't like this before.
     
    Leonthepro likes this.
  20. badman1972

    badman1972 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uk
    When I use this app I place it on a roll of tape on its side in the centre of the record. This stops your phone flying off and I think it gives a more accurate reading.
     
  21. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Could you please be more specific? I put a 7" adapter on the spindle and the phone on top of it. I guess you do exactly the same but with a roll of tape? Like this:

    [​IMG]

    Don't mind the record, I just stopped playing it to take the picture, I obviously don't risk scratching a record when doing this.
     
  22. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    But, if youre phones on the table, then how did you take a picture... ;^)

    Anyway, heres my first try results:

    [​IMG]

    Mind you, Ive always known mine was a little fast, and I knew most were. Only hear wow and flutter on longer notes though.

    Phone: Samsung S6 + Edge

    Ive heard Iphones are more accurate with these tests also. Which is why I asked. But if we both have Samsung then it should be more equal Id think.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
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  23. Tartifless

    Tartifless Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    So the vow is 5 times lower on yours.
     
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  24. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    He said his lowered to 0.22 later I think, so a case of belt warming up perhaps?
    Still double mine. Although I did my test about 1 minute after startup.
    I know it can change with time as I once recorded a song twice, hours apart, then tried to line up the clips for comparison after a cleaning, but couldnt no matter how I cut it up. Realized my second recording was slightly slower than the earlier one, or vice versa, dont remember.
    So maybe I should try a second test after a while.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
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  25. Tartifless

    Tartifless Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    My RP8 measurement with this app and a Samsung s8 gave me 0.06 and 0.07.
    So the results of the RP1 are quite good.

    However I just laid the phone randomly without taking the care you took and measured upon motor startup
     
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