Wow & Flutter Rega P1

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by dastinger, Jul 21, 2019.

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  1. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    I put mine on my 45rpm adapter, I wonder if it matters.
     
  2. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Ahah, took the photo with the GF's phone.

    Thank you so much for conducting the test! I'm sure 0.11% is pretty accurate to what the RP1 is actually capable of and that is probably normal behaviour. 0.22% is not normal and I keep getting that figure with whichever phone I try. I'll take the TT to the Rega's rep tomorrow and have him take a look. I really hope he's able to detect that something is wrong and fix it.

    I also remembered I had ripped one of the albums I'm using to test this (a Japanese copy of Waltz for Debby) and made the comparison. It might be my brain, but I'm pretty sure I could not hear the same pitch fluctuation I hear when I'm playing the record.

    Thank you for testing! The app seems to be accurate enough for us to realise that there's actually something wrong with my deck.

    I'll update you all tomorrow or Wednesday. Thank you!
     
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  3. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Actually 33,58 rpm is the exact MAX for what Rega allows a unit to run at. So Im 0.01 + RPM off from being able to get my money back if this was a new unit I guess. For Wow and Flutter though, the MAX allowed for a new Planar 1 unit is 0.50%.
     
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  4. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Second test about 1 hour later:

    [​IMG]

    About the same, just slightly faster. Thinking about that refund ;^)
     
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  5. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Seems like the weight of the phone is going to throw this test off?
     
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  6. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Where did you get those numbers? If 0.5% is the max wow&flutter allowed then I think I'm screwed. It's funny that such a high number is considered normal by Rega. 0.5% is pretty high for most people's ears.

    Regarding your second test, it seems temperature didn't change a thing and the results are still consistent.

    Why would it? My S10, for instance, weighs 157 grams. That's less than a lot of records weigh.
     
  7. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Mine isnt heavier than the average record so I dont see why.
     
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  8. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Here you go:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Not so much total weight (and my small iPhone was as much as a stack of records) but that the weight is off center. Seems like that would have to throw the w/f measurement off, depending on how well centered and distance from spindle.
     
  10. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    to balance the phone its center of mass needs to be on the spindle.
     
  11. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    That is the problem with all these apps. They don't perform the same way on all phones and getting the phone 100% centered is a challenge, assuming your phone even has evenly distributed weight in the first place.

    With several tries I was able to get one app (forget the name) to give me factory spec numbers on my main deck. Would I recommend everyone else use the app? Hell no, for the reasons mentioned.

    There really isn't a foolproof way to measure w/f at home. Even with a test tone off a test record you are at the mercy of how well it was cut, plated, and pressed.

    Bottom line, if speed stability is important to you, stay away from low end belt drive decks, especially ones that lack any sort of electronic speed control device (whether built-in or an add-on).
     
  12. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    You're getting me closer and closer to buying a P3 and I hate you for that :D
     
  13. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Im getting an SL1200 myself. Still want the ability to change VTA, ground the table myself, changes speeds with buttons, change cartridges with exchangeable headshells and of course get more accurate speeds.
     
  14. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    I'd also love a SL1200, but I'm in love with the Rega sound and aesthetics. Plus, I'd be able to return my P1 for like €200 so the P3 would cost me around €500. I'd have to really think about it.
     
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  15. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    I do love the Rega aesthetic too, few DDs look as nice as the cooler BDs.
     
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  16. regore beltomes

    regore beltomes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Helenville, WI
    You should always measure speed on a belt drive with a record playing. The stylus will add drag and affect your reading.

    With regards to slight wow when playing. I own a Garrard GT25AP1 that had slight wow but was only noticeable on classical music (violins). I replaced the belt... no improvement. Then removed the belt and let the platter free spin. Its a heavy platter and spun for about 40 seconds. I then removed the platter and gave the sub platter a spin. Ah Ha. It only spun for a few seconds and always stopped at the same position. Removed the sub platter, cleaned and re oiled the bearing. Problem fixed. I found it amazing that very slight amount of friction could be heard when playing a record.
     
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  17. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Apart from the initial hit to your bank account you will never regret buying a better turntable and a Planar 3 would be a significant improvement.

    If in future you want to improve the wow & flutter, speed stability and sound quality, the addition of the Rega Neo brings all these and more!
     
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  18. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Hello there, owner of my local hi-fi store and Rega rep! :cool:

    Joking! I'll most probably end up going with the P3 and the TT PSU is one of the reasons. I know it would be another hit to the wallet eventually, but screw it, it's worth it. I'll talk to the Rega rep next week and see what we can do.
     
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  19. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Ha, I haven't sold Regas, or indeed any Hi-Fi since 1995!

    A work colleague owns a RP1, and a friend a RP6 with TT PSU. Together we heard the (large imo) improvement of swapping out the TT PSU for the Neo. I honestly think the Neo is a bit of a bargain for the sonic improvement (and convenience) it brings and overcomes a historical Rega weakness. I'm sure a lot of the appeal of the latest generation Technics SL1200's is because of outstanding pitch stability and the Neo brings a lot of this to the Rega. Maybe because of the (deserving) success of the latest generation Technics, Rega felt they needed to improve to stay competitive?

    When I played records, these musical improvements and more detail / dynamics that a turntable with better power supply brought were very important to me and countless other: you may well feel the same. This is so easily demonstrated and heard and I'm only suggesting it as a music lover, it is after all your money and system.

    This is touched on here when they mentioned some upgrade the Planar 3 with the Neo. A shame they did not go into in more depth, but the benefits the Neo bring to the table are mentioned in the comparison of Planar 3 to Planar 6.



    Whatever your solution, happy listening!
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
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  20. The Dragon

    The Dragon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, AL
    Mike Fremer did a Rega factory tour video. What I found interesting was the "acceptable" speed tolerances for the various models. For the Planar 1, acceptable range for speed tolerance on the chart is from .2% to .75%. There are four videos in the series. The information is captured in video 4 at around 5 minutes, 26 seconds into it. It is very informative as to actual factory acceptable tolerances. For the amount of money involved for these turntables, I was not very impressed. Link provided below.

     
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  21. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Anyone that has been in a few very high tech manufacturing facilities (I have) would not be overly impressed by just about anything in those videos. As someone said when the videos were first posted, there is more high tech stuff in the brakes in some new cars than anything in that factory.

    The reason the speed tolerances are sloppy is because Rega, like many manufacturers, uses off the shelf motors to make their belt drive turntables. I suppose they could reject more of the motors and machine the subplatters more accurately but that would quickly eat into profits when they are trying to crank these things out.
     
  22. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Aper
    Sometimes the majority makes the worst possible decision. We're kinda like that.
     
  23. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    And we all know how Rega likes to cut corners... I still love the tables though :(
     
  24. ceedee

    ceedee Forum Resident

    Location:
    northern england
    dirt/grease on the belt or subplatter? rega are known for playing a bit fast.
     
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  25. ceedee

    ceedee Forum Resident

    Location:
    northern england
    damn, those numbers are high! 0.1% W&F is normally given as the standard for higher spec stuff. I have done tests on various players I have owned (Lenco75, Technics sl150/120mkII, Thorens 321, even a Garrard zero thing) and all have been )or I have managed to get them) lower than 0.1% - some pretty considerably the Thorens and the Technics in particular I have got to about 0.02-3%
     
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