Wow & Flutter Rega P1

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by dastinger, Jul 21, 2019.

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  1. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.
    It is my understanding that the SL1200's were in the under $500 usd for many years.
     
  2. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    New? No way. Used? With a lot of luck. At least in Europe.
     
  3. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    As an ex-Rega owner and ex- Rega dealer, I have very mixed views regarding the Rega P1, whereas it is clearly better than some starter turntables, the performance (and price!) is way below the Planar 3 (much improved with the many last round of updates) and vastly better Planar 6 supplied with the Planar 10 derived excellent Neo power supply, further reducing wow and flutter, 33/45 at a touch and can be adjusted to 33.33....

    A work colleague is enjoying his records like never before with his P1, but I hope that Rega's fully deserved and hard won reputation for reliability (I had one motor board go down in 15 years of retail), isn't taking a knock.

    The only turntable I have owned with a detachable headshell, was the first "proper" turntable I owned, a Rega Planar 3 with the Acos Lustre derived S shaped arm. I once fitted a conical cartridge (in the same cartridge body!) for a party, and personally had no need for a removable headshell. In between Linn LP12s, I used a Rega Planar 2 with a Moth flutter buster (turntable power supply) and very much enjoyed my music, preferring it to several Technics SL1200mk(x) that passed through the shop. Excepting these two Regas, all my personal turntables were belt driven Linn LP12s, all with at least a Valhalla power supply, the rest with my personal favourite upgrade I made, the Linn Lingo power supply. Unlike the Regas, the LP12s were adjusted to the correct speed and had better wow and flutter.

    Would I buy a Technics SL-1200GR? From the few hours listening, the pitch stability exceeds those LP12s I owned and imo it is a very impressive turntable. As a now outsider, I honestly believe the Technics is a lot better than some Rega (Linn etc.) owners believe, though ultimately not quite as good as some Technics owners may think. Compared to earlier generation SL-1200x, the GR is a big step forward.

    The latest Rega Planar 3 and Planar 6 up, are a lot better than some Technics owners may believe, if based on hearing Regas prior to 2016.

    I personally prefer the looks of the Rega compared to the Technics, BUT, would happily buy the Technics if I preferred the music produced from it. It is a real shame that it so difficult to directly compare Rega and Technics turntables, you never know, some Technics owners may actually prefer the Rega and some Rega owners may prefer the Technics.

    What was that George Michael album? Oh yes, listen without prejudice!
     
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  4. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.

    That's what a search showed. Don't forget these were in production for many years.
     
  5. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    If you find one, let me know. Got a serviced one for 500$ once, turns out it wasnt very well serviced, sent it back.
     
  6. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    Thanks for the insights! I do not really love the look of my 1210GR with all the extras I won't or don't use (the pitch slider). Frankly I prefer the looks of the old school Linns as well as a lot of the high end tables from back in the day in lovely wooden plinths. While I could have one built for my 1210, I wouldn't bother with it as it being black pretty much disappears into the other all black gear.

    As to it where it truly sits on the accurate reproduction of music scale, I would guess it's the high middle. But what it really is is not fussy, easy to adjust, and built like a tank (just like my old linear arm SL-QL1 which has been in service for 35 years without requiring maintenance). The 1210 does sound better although I have to get up ever 18-20 minutes at the end of a side. ;)
     
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  7. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.

    I'm not speaking of todays pricing, original MSRP was what I spoke to.
     
  8. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Did you take inflation into consideration?
     
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  9. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.
    No as that can be problematic.
    I got no dog in this hunt, just wondering if MSRP is being used to determine fair comparisons, then perhaps they are not as far apart as some here as eluding to.
     
  10. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    They are only my personal opinions, but having (sadly) stopped using vinyl over a decade ago, it is fascinating trying to keep abreast of more recent product development with an open mind. I may prefer the styling of both Rega and "the old fruit box" (Linn Sondek LP12), but the styling is completely secondary to the primary role of playing records. Despite the sliders etc, the Technics does a great job of playing records.

    Anything that makes listening to all genres of music enjoyable is beautiful in my eyes, and far more importantly, ears.
     
  11. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    It's easy to do that since both the Planar 1 and the 1200 are still sold today new. We're talking about updated versions ofc, but it's still the same two turntables. In most of Europe, P1 goes for €300 and the 1200GR goes for about €1600 iirc. Comparing these two is and always was nonsense.

    I'd compare the Technics with the P6 and still the Rega would cost less. But the point is, comparing the P1 with the 1200 is like comparing apples and oranges. Truth is, if you are on the market for a new turntable and don't have much to spend, the P1 is your best bet and it's not even close.
     
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  12. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.

    I agree, comparing the new is nonsense. And not in line with the post that ignited this discussion.
    The new 1200's have no reflection on the price of what the old sold for.
    And true, Technics has nothing to compete at the price range of the P1.
    Just not sure why you mention it.
     
  13. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Because the post that ignited this discussion mentioned it, not me.

    Regarding the new price vs the old, even if we were talking about $500/600 in the early 90s, that would mean $1000/1100 today. They'd still be on a totally different price range than the P1.
     
  14. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.

    Anyhoo….again no dog in this topic have I. And as I getting bored with it, I will now bow out of this topic.
     
  15. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Ok then :righton:
     
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  16. Almeida100

    Almeida100 Member

    Location:
    Portugal
    So I'm glad to hear that I started this discussion. This means that vinyl adicts are very active.
    However, let me explain a little better what I said above: I did not want to directly compare the prices of the SL1200 and P1; what I meant is that it is preferable to make an effort to buy a better quality TT, which will satisfy us for much longer!
     
  17. doctor fuse

    doctor fuse Forum Resident

    Quite frankly I am surprised people still buy Rega turntables, despite the nice styling and good arms. And I am also surprised they are still in business as a turntable maker, and not just a supplier of tonearms.

    The wow and flutter is unacceptable on the Planar 3 which a friend generously gave to me (I had always wanted to hear one). And it is not just my unit, the internet is full of these complaints. It is the rule, not the exception, that the less expensive units have audible pitch instability (as well as running fast).

    I am now seriously contemplating cannibalizing the table, for the arm. Which goes against my instinct, which is to respect the designers and keep units intact.
     
  18. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Most people just dont hear it. Depending on the music taste, no one could probably hear it. So I think its unfair to say most are unhappy with their Regas regarding speed.
     
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  19. doctor fuse

    doctor fuse Forum Resident

    Please note I never said most people are unhappy with their Regas regarding speed. I said I am surprised people still purchase them, when it is now so glaringly apparent that they have speed stability issues.

    Sure, people starting off in "serious listening" may not immediately here the fluctuations, but they will, if they begging to listen more carefully and attentively. In other words, more actively, and less passively. Which is definitely a thing with those who are into vinyl.

    I would wager most Rega owners who use their equipment more than just sporadically, will eventually notice w and f, if it is over 0.2%, which seems very common, even on more expensive units.
     
  20. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Location:
    Athens, Tennessee
    A man who thinks like I do, who has practicality in mind. And wants to play records accurately. Rather than fuss.
     
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  21. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    That's me. Fussing with gear is not something I want to do. While you have to fuss over setting up your turntable when you install your cart, that's where it ends for me. Kinda like tubes; I learned that while they make cool sounds with guitar amps, dicking around with them is of zero interest to me so no tube stereo gear.
     
  22. td320_vinylist

    td320_vinylist Well-Known Member

    I installed the app on 2 phones (Samsung A5 2017 and Motorola G7 plus) and measured 4 tables. The differences in measurements tell me to take the results with a grain of salt. Especially the speed measurement differed between the 2 phones (Moto measured clearly faster, I'm using the Samsung values here). Wow measurements were mostly quite similar.

    The tables: Rega RP1 and P3 (2016) both with Tangospinner subplatter, Thorens TD 320 MkII and Transrotor Fat Bob Reference with Konstant M1 power supply.

    The Rega's were clearly the worst. Wow 0,28% for the RP1 and 0,20% for the P3. Speed in both cases 33,58, or 0,75% fast. Also confirmed with a strobe disc that they are running fast. The Thorens and Transrotor were about equal. Speed about 0,3% slow and wow measured between 0,08% and 0,13%. The Transrotor however is speed adjusted to a rock solid strobe disc image, so I believe that rather than the measurement. In that case the Thorens speed would be quite accurate as well. With regard to wow measurement I wonder how much of a difference it makes if the phone is not exactly in the middle. I guess real values would be a bit better on all tables.
     
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  23. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Consider getting the TT PSU for it. It'll probably fix all the speed issues and you won't have to go through the trouble of removing the tonearm to use on another table.

    Thank you for testing, that was very informative!

    I since stopped noticing the issues on my Rega for some reason. Even though I might have seemed convinced to go with the P6 before, I'm still debating whether I should go vintage. I really really like Thorens, but I won't go ahead with any purchase in the near future ($$$$).
     
  24. doctor fuse

    doctor fuse Forum Resident

    "Consider getting the TT PSU for it. It'll probably fix all the speed issues and you won't have to go through the trouble of removing the tonearm to use on another table."

    I've heard that the power supply doesn't really fix the crap wow and flutter on these decks. the expensive 24v motor upgrade kit "might" fix it, and at least it is guaranteed to "improve" speed stability.

    Has anyone dealt with Rega or their Rega dealer, with a motor upgrade kit that didn't really improve speed stability and accuracy enough?
     
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