XTC - Oranges & Lemons Blu-ray - clarification

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by neil wilkes, Oct 30, 2015.

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  1. ad180

    ad180 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    No worries. It was embarrassing enough the first time, so I want to make sure it's over. :D

    Mac is awful for BluRay playback. There is no native support, so it's up to third party developers to make the software. In my experience, nobody has done it very well.
     
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  2. fredblue

    fredblue Surrounded by Music

    Location:
    London, England
    Naaaahhh..! Fahgeddabouddit..! We all get stuff wrong! :)
    I do it all the time (and am probably doing it right now!) no shame in that, "to err is human" and all that jazzapalooza! :D

    Indeed.. wasn't Blu-ray one of the late Steve Jobs' "bags of hurt"?
    Or was that HDMI?
    He didn't like either HDMI or Blu-ray, I forget now, it was probably both.. or it may have been neither.. see what I mean about 'we all make mistakes'... :angel:
     
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  3. bradman

    bradman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lexington,KY
    Remember, it's not all Sony players, just PS3 and some standalone models. PS4 and others work fine.
     
  4. rstamberg

    rstamberg Senior Member

    Location:
    Riverside, CT
    I haven't had a problem playing Blu-ray Discs on my MacBook Pro, but I have had a tough time ripping any audio from Blu-ray Discs for the reasons you've mentioned.
     
  5. Tom Campbell

    Tom Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    All of the XTC Blu-Rays play fine on my player, as well. We're among the fortunate.

    I'm pretty stunned at all of the vitriol directed toward Ape in this thread. The Blu-Ray medium is currently an absolute mess, with tons of compatibility issues across platforms, devices and manufacturers. Expecting a tiny, tiny label like Ape to sort through it all in a matter of weeks displays a total ignorance of the complexity, and the number of players, involved.

    I understand the frustration, of course, but the anger seems badly misdirected.
     
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  6. ad180

    ad180 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I've been using Mac Blu-Ray Player and I've had some problems playing back certain titles. What have you been using?
     
    fredblue likes this.
  7. Ape records chose the format and should share some blame, though not the bulk of it IMO.
    f
     
  8. kouzie

    kouzie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Batavia, IL
    Admu
    Admittedly I know absolutely nothing about blu ray authoring. My question is why do my other XTC blu rays play just fine on my PS3, but O&L won't.

    I get that things happen. My anger, probably too string of a word, but I used it first, is from several people asking for updates and being ignored. Yes, I'm sure the answer is "we're waiting for Sony to dispatch an update" but that's still better than silence.
     
    drivingfrog likes this.
  9. ad180

    ad180 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    https://www.burningshed.com/store/ape/product/351/6866/

     
  10. mongo

    mongo Senior Member

    Why is it so important for some to assign blame for this?
    Sh!t happens.
    Frankly, if you're relying on a gaming platform to play any and all audio discs to me that seems a little naive.
    If you're going to blame anyone blame Sony and their ongoing obsession with copyright protection and not having firmware that works with the available pro tools for authoring discs.
    They wrote the spec, if their own players won't play a format they own then it's totally on them.
     
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  11. rstamberg

    rstamberg Senior Member

    Location:
    Riverside, CT
    I use the AnyMP4 Blu-Ray App and it works pretty seamlessly. There's a free version available that's pretty decent as well.
     
  12. Jordo

    Jordo New Member


    If the Blu-Ray medium is such an absolute mess, why do all of my Blu-rays play perfectly fine, dozens and dozens of them? Why are they all fine but this one XTC release won't play? Why will the Drums and Wires and Nonsuch releases play fine? You can't blame this on blu-rays in general, that just doesn't make any sense.

    I'm not sure I "blame" Ape, but it is frustrating to not get any updates for months, when I have a product that I can't play and has been collecting dust. They could offer refunds or something, give updates, I don't know. Maybe the blu-rays should have been tested in multiple players before being released?
     
    kouzie likes this.
  13. bradman

    bradman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lexington,KY
    Actually, the PS3 has had fewer compatibility issues with BR playback than other players. And again, not all Sony players are affected by this particular issue with O&L.
     
  14. bradman

    bradman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lexington,KY
    It's firmware updates that break compatibility with titles, any testing would be rendered moot as updates roll out.
    I have multiple BR players and discs and have exactly one title that won't play on one particular player, other than O&L on PS3.
     
  15. Tom Campbell

    Tom Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Yes, that's exactly right. There are so many firmware updates to the Blu-Ray platform, it's extremely difficult for all the different software and hardware players to remain on the same page. And that's why previous XTC Blu-Rays may have worked in a particular device, while the new Oranges & Lemons does not.

    Here is an article about the Sony and PS4 issues that still persist:

    http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-blu-ray-facing-multiple-problems-suffering-from-playback-issues

    And here is an old article (2010), but one that briefly summarizes the type of issues that still occur regularly on different manufacturers' players (like LG, Samsung, and many computer-based platforms):

    http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/22/samsung-blu-ray-players-wont-play-warner-universal-movies-afte/
     
    musicfreak likes this.
  16. DesertChaos

    DesertChaos Forum Resident

    They are, but as has been said, with all the assorted firmware versions, all the different players out there it's virtually impossible to cover every combination of equipment....they do try. There are several over at QQ that receive test discs from Opus (under NDA of course) and they try the discs with assorted equipment, and I'd guess there are others not on QQ that Opus tests the discs with as well.

    When Steve Jobs called Blu-ray a "big bag of hurt" this is just the type of thing he was talking about!
     
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  17. LarryT

    LarryT Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York, USA
    Maybe they should start putting "Advisory Stickers" on them ....

    WARNING!
    THIS DISC, MAY OR MAY NOT WORK IN YOUR PLAYER.
    NO REFUNDS OR FIXES, GUARANTEED.
    ARE YOU FEELING LUCKY?


    Does anyone know, if APE/BURNING SHED offers the 24bit/96khz LPCM Audio download, for those of us that don't feel lucky?
     
  18. DesertChaos

    DesertChaos Forum Resident

    Because doing really simple searching seems to be a task beyond so many, a simple look at Burning Shed's APE page indicates that it's flac or mp3.

    They're quite open and responsive to customers though, so having a few *serious* buyers ask about higher-res downloads might get the ball rolling - they do sell a lot for Steven Wilson and I think he's pretty well known for supporting hi-res whenever feasible.
     
  19. jeffrey walsh

    jeffrey walsh Senior Member

    Location:
    Scranton, Pa. USA
    Phew, lucky here. Have a two year old Sony blu player and all is well thankfully.
     
  20. mongo

    mongo Senior Member

    Look at it this way then.
    Buy a different BD player and it will play all of your blu-rays AND Oranges & Lemons.
    Who's at fault now? ;)

    I bought mine from Amazon UK, maybe we could ping them and see if they're going to offer a download for PS3 owners.
     
  21. LarryT

    LarryT Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York, USA
    The simple search task was not beyond me. I did see that info on their web page.

    I guess my question should've been .... if they are offering the Hi-Res download for those that are having problems with the Blu-Ray.
     
    DesertChaos likes this.
  22. DesertChaos

    DesertChaos Forum Resident

    That would be a good option to offer if possible - try firing off an email and see what they say...might be something they can do but hadn't thought of.
     
    LarryT likes this.
  23. Gregory Sandoval

    Gregory Sandoval Forum Resident

    A few points I think need to be made clear:

    1) People are not upset with Burning Shed, etc. We are upset at the lack of communication from - let's just say - the artist / label involved here. We understand Burning Shed is simply the merchant and, even though I didn't purchase this item through them, I've contacted them on this issue and they've been as polite and helpful as can be.

    2) The simple fact is, someone at the mastering house, presumably under label approval, opted to master these discs with different tools and techniques such that - unlike the Drums & Wires and Nonsuch releases - they are not as compatible. Mind you this issue has been identified as primarily affecting some Sony players, but not exclusively. Because the discs are "technically compliant", the label has opted to lay this issue at Sony's feet rather than address the above decision which was clearly an error in judgment. That's fine, but in abdicating this responsibility to a multi-national corporation, they know full well this will not be resolved - if it is at all - in a timely manner.

    3) All of the above would be JUST FINE, had someone stepped forward and been more proactive or communicative in providing a solution. Something like, "We acknowledge a change in the mastering process has caused compatibility issues with some players - primarily Sony. We are working to resolve this. If we cannot find a solution within 90 days (or some other reasonable timeframe) we will provide an alternative solution for our customers (e.g. digital downloads, disc exchange for corrected versions, etc.). Thank you, we appreciate your business." Please feel free to copy and paste that. It's this lack of proactive action that ticks customers off as we've shelled our hard-earned money for this item. Leaving us to check Andy's twitter or these message boards is hardly sufficient.
     
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  24. Tobe Morris

    Tobe Morris New Member

    Received the O&L Bluray today, and played it on a Pioneer BDP-170, no problems yet.

    The Steven Wilson (stereo) mix is fascinating. I love it that XTC has put themselves in the hands of someone they trust, and I love that Wilson has obviously been given free reign on that basis.

    The mix still has the problem inherent in the original LP. It rarely comes out of the speakers and gives you a hug. But I think Wilson has dragged out what could be dragged out, and opened the sound considerably.
    I have the TOCP Japanese Cd of O&L, which beat the original Virgin master hands down. The Wilson mix is great work. I've just compared the 2, and Toshiba came in a far second.

    The mix personally works for me on the less busy mixes, and it's worth the price of the bluray just to hear how good Colin Moulding is at what he does. Wilson has bumped bass guitar clarity front and centre in all the mixes, highlighted guitar licks and got rid of some of the disgusting 2 Khz fizzy nastiness masquerading as top-end. The little McCartney-esque runs Moulding chucks in to his sometimes deceptive ploddings are frankly wicked. And the guitar work is sometimes just sooo bloody clever that it makes ya sick.

    What the original mix was missing in pure musical energy, Wilson has managed to re-inject by revealing licks and subtleties. He's removed the bland smoothness of the original mix, so now it's got elbows and knees. When I first heard the new mix of 'Across The Antheap' it made me think of one of The Police's wackier b sides. The last minute sounds like Sting and Copeland off on one. Strange what a mix can do.

    Poor Skeleton Steps Out is a killer mix, guitar cleverness brought to the front, it now sounds like it could have come from The Big Express or Mummer (which I can't wait for in this format.)
     
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  25. kouzie

    kouzie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Batavia, IL
    Exactly.

    Thank you.

    And for the record, I finally got around to hooking up my Xbox One yesterday and the blu ray did not play in that either. So now I've got 2 blu ray players (Xbox One and PS3) that it won't play on...
     
    drivingfrog likes this.
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