XTC - Oranges & Lemons Blu-ray - clarification

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by neil wilkes, Oct 30, 2015.

  1. LarryT

    LarryT Forum Resident

    Nowhere Man, USA
    Not to mention, there are those who know nothing of Andy's twitter posts ... or these message boards.
    I would guess that those folks just returned it for a refund.
  2. Jordo

    Jordo New Member

    I just want to +1 Gregory's post.

    I had actually already asked about getting some way to get digital files, like a link to them etc, and I was told absolutely no way, because they don't want to encourage file sharing. I have no interest in sharing the files, none of my friends even like XTC. I just want to hear the music, and the bonus tracks, and etc. I just want them on my ipod so I could enjoy them while I drive or I'm at work or on the subway. I can't enjoy them at all because of the blu-ray not working.

    I think the idea to master them using the same methods as the previous discs is the best option here.
  3. LarryT

    LarryT Forum Resident

    Nowhere Man, USA
  4. CraigVC

    CraigVC Forum Resident

    Portland, OR
    Do we have a clear confirmation - from the team who worked on this disc, or directly from the label - that anything was done differently to create this Oranges & Lemons disc, compared to other discs previously released by the label?

    Is it possible that they used exactly the same equipment (hardware and software), and that they used all the same techniques and settings, and yet somehow this disc still ended up incompatible with some firmware versions on some devices?

    I realize it seems more likely that something changed, but I don't recall a clear statement from Neil or anyone else, saying, "Yes, we changed something and now the disc isn't compatible with some firmware on some devices." For example, maybe they updated the version of blu-ray authoring software on their workstations? Isn't it also possible that the devices' firmware has some bug/defect that only manifests with certain discs that contain content in a certain way (e.g., maybe there's a firmware defect when there are more than 99 - or some other number - chapters/tracks on a blu-ray)?

    Believe me, I'm still very frustrated, along with everyone else. I have a growing collection of expensive blu-ray discs that won't play in my crappy Sony blu-ray player: Oranges & Lemons, Yes Fragile, Queen Live at the Odeon.... That sucks! Makes me uncertain whether I'll continue to buy Steven Wilson remixes, which is sad. A few months ago, I was buying most everything he has worked on, and loving it.

    I wonder how many of us are impacted by this Oranges & Lemons firmware incompatibility issue? Ten percent of the overall buyers of the disc? 20-30%? More? If this issue isn't resolved by the time the next XTC blu-ray is released, how many of us will take a chance and buy the next disc in the series?


    P.S. - I was going to buy an Oppo player during this holiday season, but we had some significant unplanned expenses come up, and now that plan is on the backburner indefinitely.
    ad180 likes this.
  5. LarryT

    LarryT Forum Resident

    Nowhere Man, USA
    Will we even know that the issue(s) is resolved?
    I'm sure it will have a big impact on sales of future releases, for those experiencing the problem(s).
    drivingfrog likes this.
  6. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    Let's not forget Blu Ray would probably not be around today if not for that gaming platform, and to not test a disc on what is probably the world's most popular Blu Ray player is a huge oversight.
  7. Onrd

    Onrd I am not a number

  8. Onrd

    Onrd I am not a number

    Regarding Oppo, the disc will only play on my BDP-80 using a workaround. You need to inser the disc, turn the player off, then restart. It will then boot correctly. This is really bizarre.
  9. LarryT

    LarryT Forum Resident

    Nowhere Man, USA
    Sent a note off to BurningShed .... Lisa quickly provided an update ....


    Thanks very much for your email.

    Sorry there hasn’t been any news about this recently. I know the guys at APE are definitely trying very hard to come to a decent conclusion with Sony but it’s all very slow.

    I’m sure we will have news for you quite soon. The download idea is good and I will pass it on to the label but I think they’re probably more concerned with getting the full bluray playing for everyone right now.

  10. marcel

    marcel Alea Iacta Est

    Interesting. It would be nice to know what the EAC peak levels are for this version. Thanks :)
  11. Tobe Morris

    Tobe Morris New Member

    I have absolutely no idea (!), I just use my ears to make a call.
    All I know is that the TOCP masters are all great, all the dynamics are present and correct (the Drums And Wires TOCP gives Steven Wilson's re-mix
    a good run for its' money.) I gave all my original Virgin CDs to a mate, and I'll keep all the TOCP's if not just for the artwork.
  12. HeWhoWantsJeans

    HeWhoWantsJeans New Member

    Thanks for the update. I've been buying my fiance these re-issues as fast as they come out... and what a fantastic Christmas Gift it was to have the 'Oranges and Lemons' BluRay fail to play in the PS3. I got as far as an image of the APE Logo appearing on the screen but then nothing ever happened.

    The other XTC re-issues were stellar so this came as a bit of a surprise. I think I'm also beyond the refund date with Burning Shed, so... well, it's a BluRay Coaster, I guess?
  13. ad180

    ad180 Forum Resident

    No, you don't have a coaster:
  14. sharedon

    sharedon Forum Zonophone

  15. There was an update on my PS3 earlier this week and I was thinking "YES!", but still didn't play... good to see it's inching forward towards resolution though.
  16. Onrd

    Onrd I am not a number

    This is not just a Sony issue. The disc doesn't work on a variety of brands as well as every software player I've tried. The disc should be re-authored.
    Gregory Sandoval likes this.
  17. CraigVC

    CraigVC Forum Resident

    Portland, OR
    Well, it's been just over 5 months since I reached out to Sony, alerting them to this firmware issue with my Sony Blu-Ray player and certain Blu-Ray discs such as XTC Oranges & Lemons.

    I received a single email response from Sony, on November 1st. In recognition of this anniversary of non-responsiveness from Sony, I'm going to quote the email in full, below.

    To their credit, they did not misspell the word "Sony" even once in this message.

    I still have yet to play this XTC blu-ray disc on my system.

    Has anyone who was experiencing this issue on their player(s) - whether Sony or any other affected brand - yet been able to receive a firmware update for their player that resolves this issue?

  18. CraigVC

    CraigVC Forum Resident

    Portland, OR
    As the email message from Sony instructs:
    But when I go to Sony eSupport - BDP-S360 - Support » and see what firmware updates are available, this is still the latest:

    Release Date 6/21/2012
    Version 014
    File Size 48.09 MB

    I hate it that Sony now sucks so much.

    I would be a happier customer (though either way, no longer a customer of Sony's) if - instead of the b---s--t email they sent, filled with false hopes and rife with unprofessional misspelled words - they had sent a short but direct and honest reply, along these lines: "We're sorry, but we no longer will provide any firmware updates for the Sony BDPS360 player that was manufactured in 2010. Because the issue you have described is the result of outdated firmware that we will never again update, and otherwise the device may be fully functional and in good working condition, we recommend that you discard that device since it no longer plays some of the latest software discs that you have purchased and/or will purchase in the future."

    I realize it's completely unrealistic to think they'd be so forthright and honest with their customers. I'm just entertaining myself by venting a bit. :) (Plus it gives this thread another bump, as I'm still interested to know if Sony has actually responded to or resolved any of these complaints with any firmware updates, at this point.)

  19. Onrd

    Onrd I am not a number

    As far as I know no one is interested in fixing this problem. It's ridiculous that the vendors aren't supporting their hardware with updates and expect people to buy new players every second year.
    It's clear to me that there is a problem inherent with this disc. I have over 5,000 blu-rays that play fine on my equipment - why won't this one? The disc should be re-authored. I personally will not buy another of these XTC reissues.
    Gregory Sandoval likes this.
  20. rstamberg

    rstamberg Forum Resident

    Riverside, CT
    I had to do something similar to get my 8-year-old Panasonic Blu-ray Disc player to play Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers' HYPNOTIC EYE Blu-ray Audio Disc. No biggie, just a hassle to get it properly loaded and read.
  21. kouzie

    kouzie Forum Resident

    Batavia, IL
    What really bothers me is that Neil or anybody from the label has provided any kind of update, exchange offer or even an apology. At best, it's terrible customer service. At worse they're thieves for selling a product without proper testing.
    Gregory Sandoval likes this.
  22. DetroitDoomsayer

    DetroitDoomsayer Forum Middle Child

    Detroit, Michigan
    For what it's worth (I'm sure it's not worth much) I've had a Sony BDP S580 player since 2011 and have never upgraded the firmware and it's played every disc I've ever put in the thing, including the Oranges and Lemons blu. I still think it's not an authoring problem, but a java/firmware problem. I'd have to think if it was an authoring problem it more than likely would not play in mine.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
    Tom Campbell likes this.
  23. CraigVC

    CraigVC Forum Resident

    Portland, OR
    Perhaps from now on, they can publish a list of "verified to work" Blu-Ray players with each disc they sell. If my player isn't on the list, maybe I won't buy the disc and save myself the disappointment and wasted money.

    kouzie likes this.
  24. Gregory Sandoval

    Gregory Sandoval Active Member

    Agreed! I'll be contacting my merchant to request a refund. This has been a fiasco and the artist/label should be ashamed of how this has been mishandled.
  25. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Forum Resident

    Scottish Borders
    If it wasn't for the footsoldiers tramping on ahead, I'd probably stick with my early Virgin/Nimbus pressing, which is very good, but this looks appealing!

    (Moreso now I know it works in the 752BD!)
    rstamberg likes this.

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