1. This day in history: January 12, 2002. 9:49 AM, California time. The Steve Hoffman Music Forums officially launched with this thread. Thank you for 20 years of music, discussion, and great memories! Join our "Thank You!" thread, and we'll see you in the forum!
    Dismiss Notice

Yamaha A-S1100 or McIntosh MA5200

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by matrix-6, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    The Phono preamp in the 1100 blows away the one in my A-S500. The phono section of the 500 is not even tolerable in my system anymore - literally like throwing a thick blanket over the speakers.
     
    Heckto35 and ThorensSme like this.
  2. matrix-6

    matrix-6 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    So odd. Was that at matching volume levels?
     
  3. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    It's at all volume levels. There's just a complete cutoff of the high freqs with the A-S500's phono section, even when compared to the likes of an ART DJ Pre. In fact, the A-S500's phono section is the worst I've used/owned by a wide margin.

    In contrast, I feel the stage in the 1100 is likely competitive with ~$700 units, maybe even higher considering its ultra low noise floor.

    Maybe they used a similar discrete design for the RN602 but that's doubtful, it's most likely opamp-based.
     
    ThorensSme likes this.
  4. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here!

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    @Helom You just made my day!!
     
    ThorensSme and Helom like this.
  5. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    It's at least as good as the Lounge LCR III and much quieter.
     
  6. RPM

    RPM Forum Resident

    Location:
    Easter Island
    What about the lack of subsonic filter?
     
  7. weavzy

    weavzy Needle Dropper

    I actually run my AS1100 with the Lounge. I find it has more deeper bass and mellower highs, compared to the on board phono.
     
    Heckto35 likes this.
  8. avi.rib

    avi.rib New Member

    Location:
    Israel
    Can anybody tell me what is the spec of the phono stage for MC with this Yamaha? I didn't find the gain values the documentation. I have a 0.5 mV Ortofon quintet blue, and as I understand I need at least 60db of gain.
    I was eyeing this Yamaha for a long time, but was afraid it wouldn't be strong enough for my ATC SCM19v2, but now that the new ATC SIA-100 integrated is out with has 100wpc/8ohm I think the 90wpc of the Yamaha will be enough.
     
  9. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    The deeper bass and mellow highs is spot on. That's what I heard and what is backed up by measurements of the LCR's very inaccurate EQ:
    Phono Preamp Measurements from ASR

    Not saying it sounds bad that way but it's nowhere near a correct RIAA curve.
     
    weavzy likes this.
  10. weavzy

    weavzy Needle Dropper

    Yeah, Im a pretty poor audiophile. I dont even really know what the RIAA curve is.

    I appreciate fellas like yourself who know all the technical jargon and can test numbers and measurements ect ect. If you guys didnt exist, there'd be no nice gear.

    But i just like what my ears like. And they like big lush engulfing bassy mellow sounds. Not clinical and precise. And the Lounge delivers the Big Lushness in spades .

    As Sly Stone said...different strokes for different folks .
     
    Helom likes this.
  11. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Certainly. That's why I won't claim the Yamaha stage is better than the Lounge. They seemed about par considering their strengths and weaknesses. I only surmise the 1100 stage is as good as ~$700 units because some prefer the Lounge over the likes of the MF Phenomena.
     
    weavzy likes this.
  12. 33na3rd

    33na3rd Forum Resident

    Location:
    SW Washington, USA
    amirm's graphs tend to compress the X Axis, and stretch the Y Axis. This makes the measurements look more dramatic.
     
  13. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Are you saying he fibs the numbers or the graphs appear stretched vertically? Even if it was only a 1db variation as opposed to the alleged 2.35, that's still quite poor considering the standard among budget preamps is around 0.5db.

    Anyhow, my only point is that in my system, the 1100's phono stage has a couple advantages over some well-regarded outboard units. It's the best built-in phono stage I've encountered by a wide margin.
     
    ThorensSme likes this.
  14. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    [QUOTE="Helom, post: 21042938, member

    Anyhow, my only point is that in my system, the 1100's phono stage has a couple advantages over some well-regarded outboard units. It's the best built-in phono stage I've encountered by a wide margin.[/QUOTE]

    Same experience here.
     
  15. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Same experience here.
     
    Helom likes this.
  16. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    Yamaha has made some fine phono stages in their long history
     
    ThorensSme and Helom like this.
  17. 33na3rd

    33na3rd Forum Resident

    Location:
    SW Washington, USA
    I'm not disputing the numbers. I still don't like the X & Y aspect ratio of his graphs.
     
  18. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    You’ll be just fine. I ran a Quintet Bronze at .3mv output in the MC section and it had no problems handling that output.
     
    avi.rib likes this.
  19. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here!

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    Tragedy! The A-S1100 arrived on Friday. What a disappointment. I don't know if it was the original purchaser's fault, or that of the staff at Amazon, but the amp was horribly repackaged. It was filthy, and there was a bent speaker post, not mention some fine scratches on the top of one of the gloss side panels. So much for "like new" and so much for my deal, LOL. It's going back to Amazon, and hopefully it doesn't get further damaged on the return trip...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Man, that sucks! Sorry to hear that.

    I hope you send those pics off to Amazon. They have been much more responsive to my return requests when I send them pics.
     
  21. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here!

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    Actually I had very long web chat with them the other day, including sending pictures. They said to send it back, but I kept trying to explain that it would probably become more damaged if I re-use those shipping materials. They said it's my only choice. So now I'm a little worried they're going to blame me if something else happens, but they've always done right by me in the past, so we'll see...
     
    matrix-6 likes this.
  22. mdelrossi

    mdelrossi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn nyc
    Fully document all sides of the piece with photos. Close up of the damage with a tape measure or a coin for size reference.

    That really sucks!
    Good luck.
     
  23. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    It looks as though it was double-boxed. Original packaging is only a single box with the foam inserts - one area they really need to improve upon. Wouldn't surprise me if this sort of shipping damage is very common with these amps.
     
  24. SirAngus

    SirAngus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    A 50# amp in its original box with original packing foam put inside a slightly larger box with no addition padding will only allow it to shift around, be harder to handle and be even more susceptible to damage.
     
  25. matrix-6

    matrix-6 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Anyone try this:

    1. Set your A-S1100 to phono.
    2. Make sure your turntable is off.
    3. Turn the volume to max.

    What do you hear?

    Is it dead silent or do you hear any noise? I notice that whether my Technics SL-1210GR is on or off, there is some noise starting at roughly 50% volume or 12 o'clock on the dial. It gets louder as I increase to max. If I turn the volume back down to zero and then switch the input to CD and turn it back to max, it is dead silent whether the CD player is on or off. If you test this be careful to set levels back down to zero before switching inputs and turning it back up again for obvious reasons.

    I'm also using my Yamaha R-N602 as a Tuner, streamer, and phono pre-amp for my Pro-Ject Carbon Classic. I have the 602 going into the Tuner input of the A-S1100. I notice the same with the Carbon Classic. If I have the A-S1100 set to Tuner and the 602 set to Phono, there is noise at max volume whether the Pro-Ject is on or off.

    Both turntables are grounded to each corresponding phono input - the Pro-Ject on the 602, and the Technics on the A-S1100.

    It's not that big of a deal as I rarely turn the volume up to 50% for either, but I was just curious if this was normal and/or if there is anything I can do about it. I'm guessing things might sound even better if I could eliminate any noise.

    As my speakers are hooked up to the A-S1100 I tried testing the 602 headphone out compared to the A-S1100. On the 602 I don't start hearing the noise until I get to -17dB all the way up from -100dB. Max volume is 0dB on the 602. So, I'm not hearing the noise until the volume is set to roughly 80% on the R-N602. On the A-S1100 the headphones are the same - I start hearing the noise at 50% volume.

    P.S. I know there is likely tons of info on this out there and I already started some digging, but I thought I'd throw it out here in case anyone else is interested and/or has come across this and has any suggestions. I'm also curious what others are hearing on their A-S1100. I am currently taking a look at this: Eliminating Noise in Vinyl Playback Systems | Galen Carol Audio | Galen Carol Audio . The sound is like a low level hum with a slight buzz on top based on that chart. My system is not near any magnetic induction as far as I'm aware - it's just up against a wall far from the fridge and the speakers for that matter. Regarding buzz and missing ground wire, they are connected and the A-S1100 has that "floating and balanced power" system. It's a two prong plug and I plugged it directly into the wall while my other components including the 602 are plugged into a power strip, plugged into the wall outlet directly below the outlet the A-S1100 is plugged into. If I turn the 602 completely off, I still hear the same amount of buzz. I LED strips which I turned off and even unplugged and there is no change so it's not that.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019

Share This Page

molar-endocrine