Yamaha A-S1100 or McIntosh MA5200

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by matrix-6, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    There are many possible sources of buzz. I only get a faint hiss with the volume over 50% on my 1100 (phono input).

    Don't rule out the interconnect or tonearm cables - common sources of buzz in an analog chain.

    Try disconnecting the 602 from the 1100.
     
    Strat-Mangler likes this.
  2. LH5

    LH5 Well-Known Member


    I too have a A-S1100 amp and a SL1200GR. Try using the phono cables that came in the box with your turntable. They appear to be a fully shielded cable. I had the same noise and hum issues when using non fully shielded cables from companies like Audioquest and Kimber. I am using my SL1200GR with a Denon DL-103 LOMC and I don't have any hum or noise issues anymore using the cables that came in the box.
     
  3. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead SUDACA ROÑOSO

    That's normal. Phono doesn't have the same noise floor as AUX. The source is subjected to all sort of interferences and mechanical/electrical noises. A little noise with no music coming from the speakers is nothing to worry about as long as it's not a hum. You shouldn't be able to hear during dead wax (between songs)
     
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  4. matrix-6

    matrix-6 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    I tried disconnecting the 602 from the 1100 and it didn't make a difference.

    I'm using the cables that came in box with the SL-1210GR.

    What do you guys hear when you turn the volume to max?
     
  5. matrix-6

    matrix-6 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Thanks. I was thinking that might be the case. I am wondering if a power conditioner might make a difference though, but then if I'm hearing nothing with AUX, would it? I'd rather save my money if not.
     
  6. RWBadley

    RWBadley Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno NV USA
    Someone else can chime in, but my experience is on phono at full gain there will always be substantially more noise from speakers than on cd or six.

    A mix of him and hiss. I would expect it. It should be fairly quiet at under half throttle though.
     
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  7. matrix-6

    matrix-6 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    So, I unplugged the Technics from the S1100 and there is still pink noise - with nothing connected. So yeah, I'm guessing that is normal for Phono level vs AUX as Pinhead said. With the Technics plugged in there is some hum, but ONLY at very high levels, and using the included cables that came with the Technics. There's no difference if I touch the ground or move cables around at this point.

    One thing I did do a little bit ago to test the different amps was get some banana plugs for the speakers into the amps. I was using bare wire before that. There's no way the plugs could be introducing any interference is there? BTW, do banana plugs help with oxidation? I was going to remove them after testing and go back to bare wire, but thought maybe not if it will help protect against oxidation over time.
     
  8. LH5

    LH5 Well-Known Member

    I start to hear some noise at the 12:00 position. But I am currently running Klipsch Forte III speakers that are 99 db @ 1 watt/1 meter sensitive at this time. Something like my B&W PM1's which were 88 db @ 1 watt/ 1 meter sensitive would not produce as much noise at that volume position. You have to remember that a phono input has extra low level amplifier stages to bring a phono cartridge's level up to where it is usable. This by design is going to make it more likely to have more noise than your line level inputs.
     
  9. matrix-6

    matrix-6 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    That's exactly what I'm hearing. So I'm guessing normal. I saw a video from PS Audio where they said the signal is being magnified like a thousand times or so, so it's inevitable. The moving coil or moving magnet are super sensitive and subject to picking up things that get magnified.
     
  10. matrix-6

    matrix-6 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Same here. I have Heresey IIIs and Harbeth P3ESRs. It's more noticeable with the Hereseys of course. But yeah, it comes in at 50% and at that level it's just the pink noise. The hum/buzz barely starts to come in at about 60%.
     
  11. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead SUDACA ROÑOSO

    I use banana plugs. Used to have problems with oxidation before doing so, but I don't use uber-expensive cables, so I guess golden bananas are the way to go for for proper contact and comfort (I alternate my pair of floorstanders and sub with two different amps, so a must for me; I can make the swap in under a minute)
     
  12. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead SUDACA ROÑOSO

    No experience with power conditioners (can't afford them). Electricity down here is everything but steady. ey keep varying voltage and reversing polarity without telling you, so I find myself reversing the plug (use a cheater plug if 3-pronged). It does reduce and sometimes eliminate hum issues most times than not. Poor man's method, but known to work.
     
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  13. matrix-6

    matrix-6 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    I ended up getting these in a budget pinch: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007QUYQSY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
     
  14. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead SUDACA ROÑOSO

  15. matrix-6

    matrix-6 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Just popped on some vinyl and I can't even get past 45% volume before it's too loud, so this really is a non issue for me. I just wanted to confirm/see if what I was hearing was normal. The reason I wanted to ask was because I had a friend over who noticed it when we were A/Bing turntables and speakers. I'm not even sure why I had it turned up to the point he could hear it between flipping records. Anyway, I think all is good, on my end at least. Thank you for the replies! Glad to hear what I'm hearing is pretty much normal. :)
     
  16. matrix-6

    matrix-6 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    So here's an interesting update. Something about the sound coming out of my speakers felt off - almost like a slight distortion at times, a tiny bit grainy similar to slight surface noise on a record, but this was listening to anything - radio, streaming, CD, and vinyl. It was very subtle and at first I attributed it to the recording - some sounded worse that others, but then I thought it might be more than coincidence if I was noticing it on completely different tracks. I also decided after A/Bing the A-S1100 with the R-N602, I no longer needed to use the banana plugs (linked two posts above), and I was curious if I would notice any difference going back to bare wire. So, I decided to A/B one speaker with bananas against one without. I set the right Heresey III to bare wire and the kept the left with the banana plug. Both myself and my wife noticed that grit was gone on the right. I then removed the banana plug on the left and it was gone there as well! I then turned the volume up to max w/o anything playing and the insect-like buzz I mentioned was gone!!! All I heard was the standard pink noise and slight hum as to be expected. So... The buzz culprit ended up being the banana plugs of all things. I asked my wife if she noticed it again, and she said she definitely did. She said the signal sounded cleaner and smother now even at average listening levels. She's not an audiophile and thought I was crazy wasting time removing the banana plugs, so when she says she notices it, I know it's real and not perceived/placebo. The difference was subtle but it was there. It was kind of that "something isn't right" but you aren't sure what it is.

    So now I have one last question. I'm running the A-S1100 directly to the wall and the rest of my components to a standard power strip plugged into the socket below the A-S1100 socket. I've read that power conditioners and/or expensive regenerators help with noise and RF interference. If my system is dead silent at max volume for AUX ins and I don't have any RF interference, should I even bother? I don't get lightning here and it rarely gets windy enough for the power to go out. It's happened once since I started this thread and I just turned the power switch on the front of the A-S1100 and RN-602 off until the power came consistently back on, and all was fine. I get needing a conditioner if you have "dirty" power, but how would you even know? What does it sound like compared to clean power?
     
  17. captwillard

    captwillard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville
    I think power conditioning benefits pre amps and source components more than amps. With amps you are best finding a conditioner that doesn’t choke the current running to your amp when it needs it for musical peaks. The wrong conditioner can alter dynamics. It is more complicated than what I tried to put in basic terms, but if you don’t need to worry about surges in your grid and you don’t have any noise, you may be fine without one.
     
    matrix-6 likes this.
  18. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    NO
     
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  19. Lebowski

    Lebowski Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here!

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    Well, I’ve gone and ordered another A-S1100! An open box unit with full warranty from IQ Home Entertainment, via Amazon. They are an authorized Yamaha dealer.

    Hopefully this one arrives in its stated condition!
     
  20. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Your issue is likely a result of the removable banana plug connection being unshielded or the connection having poor integrity. A properly soldered and shrink finished joint would likely not have an issue. This is why manufacturers can get away with charging premium for fancy made up cables. Likely improvement is decent assembly and shielding rather than some magic cable formula. Don't bother with a power conditioner unless you have mains problems, especially for integrated or power amps. You could consider a balanced mains unit. If you suffer from DC just buy a DC blocker.
     
    matrix-6 likes this.
  21. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    If you are hearing hissing is normal, gain on the phono stage is a lot higher than aux and you are listening to semiconductor noise, Hum could be induced by another component nearby or a power cable. Depending on how good your phono stage is you might get more or less noise but even some very good ones can be noisy (valves). A quality external phono stage is likely to be less noisy than what you get included in your amp.
     
  22. matrix-6

    matrix-6 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    It's more like an insect buzz. It happens when I turn the volume knob up to the the 12 o'clock position with the Pro-Ject Carbon Classic. It comes in much later on the Technics SL-1210GR. You don't hear it when you play a record, but you do when you don't or when the stylus is just resting on the turntable w/o it spinning.
     
  23. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    The difference in noise volume between the two TT's might be cartridge and cable dependent but if it is an insect like noise it is perfectly normal.

    Presumably at the volume level you hear the noise loudly should you play music the speakers and amp would blow up, right? If that is so, there is nothing unusual about your experience, if you want better, you need to spend a lot in a good phono stage but there is no getting rid of the noise completely, it'll be better but it will be there, it all has to do with the voltage level coming out of the cartridge which is several times lower than what comes out of a CD player.
     
  24. matrix-6

    matrix-6 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Yep. It's definitely only at unlistenable levels. It's just one of those knowing it's there sort of things and the Technics is quieter than the Pro-Ject.
     
  25. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Then don't worry about it, is the way it is. It is component noise, it is everywhere and on everything, it might be disguised but it is there.
    Try setting your amp to AUX, even if your amp has nothing connected to aux you will find that if you put your ear next to the tweeters you will hear a very low level hissing too that comes from the amp itself.
     

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