Yamaha A-S1100 or McIntosh MA5200

Ah, thanks!

 

Found it! It was the R-N803 (four out of five stars):

Yamaha R-N803D review | What Hi-Fi?

Cons Against: "Not accomplished with rhythm or timing

But there’s a shortage of unity to the presentation – again, the sound comprises distinct elements but not a great enough sense of a band as a single entity. Tying together musical threads to form a cogent whole is not a strength here.

Switching to physical inputs only compounds the impression of a machine well able to deal with the nuance of a single instrument or the character of a singer but not adept at marrying them together.

Even four-square and repetitive CD-borne grooves like Mogwai’s Party In The Dark or Prince’s Girls & Boys can’t quite unite, their rhythms hesitant and club-footed. Songs like this, when delivered by the Yamaha, sound like neighbours rather than housemates.

The on-board phono stage plays to vinyl’s inherent strengths – the warmth we notice from the off is positively toasty when listening to Jimmy Smith’s The Caton LP.

But for all the format’s languid charms, the Yamaha still can’t quite extract a convincing facsimile of an all-round-the-same-mic ensemble performance. For a product with such a smooth and balanced overall tonality, its lumpy way with timing is frustrating.

Throughout the frequency range, the Yamaha errs on the side of caution – and we think that’s an entirely sensible move.

Low frequencies are decently weighty, tonally expressive and don’t overhang too much, while at the opposite end of the range, treble sounds shine benignly without suggesting they might get troublesome.

The R-N803D is forgiving enough in this respect to pair happily with a wide range of speakers, both in terms of character and price.

Verdict
All hi-fi is a compromise to some extent but the question for potential suitors is how far are you prepared to compromise?

Yes, the Yamaha's timing isn't as accurate as we'd like but it's still a generously specified, detailed network receiver with an engagingly smooth and warm sound. The least it deserves is an audition."​

 

I believe that's what made me look into the S series. It's honestly all a blur at this point though. Info overload researching this stuff.

 

There's one primary difference between the 1100/2100/3000 and all Yamaha's other amps - the MOSFET transistors. The 201/500/501/701/801/1000/2000 and a few others use bipolars. The bipolar tranny amps are a bit more dynamic. The MOSFET amps give up just a bit of dynamism in exchange for a more romantic/blossomed midrange.

I must say that the 1100 seems a little slower when the meters are on. I think it's only a psychoacoustic effect, but it has me listening with the meters off most of the time.

All their amps produce a sort of fifth-row/ mid hall presentation. Most amps I've owned in this range present the midrange with a very upfront/front-row character - probably more impressive in a quick audition.

 

Interesting. What do you mean when you say a little slower? Just in relation to the meters or the music itself somehow? I'll have 15 days to compare it to the R-N602 when it arrives so that should be plenty of time. I heard about the MOSFETs and that that's what makes the S1100/S2100/S3000 a step above. I also heard the others go through an op amp while the 1100 on do not.

 

What's your experience with what the A-s1100 will power? I'm wondering how one would pair with my new (1989 vintage) Theils 3.5's. They are power hungry, but not as hungry as my 804's.

 

I don't know for sure about the OP amps. If you're referring to the phono sections, then yeah, their entry level amps almost certainly use OP amps. I can't speak as to what the mid-tier units use for the line stage inputs.

The 1100^ are supposed to be fully discrete, maybe with the exception of the headphone amp in the 1100, which I believe is OPamp based.

 

This guy goes into it in detail walking through the schematics:

 

I would think they'd be fine. Your Parasound gear will sound more powerful. The 1100 is a 90watt/ch amp, and IMO, its sound is consistent with that rating. The most current hungry speakers i own at the moment are EPI 100s. I've pegged the meters a few times running those speakers, with probably 95db peaks in my large room. I think it really comes down to room size and how loud you'll play them.

I also wouldn't be surprised if your 801 would actually sound like the more powerful amp with its bipolar transistors. OTOH, the 1100 has greater power reserves. Tough call as I have no experience with Thiels.

 

I got board back at page 3. If you have the money get the A-s2100 over the Mac. Are you a Dentist, mid-level Attorney or a Podiatrist trying to impress the neighbors? If so get the Mac and some Wilson speakers. You have Harbeths? Harbeths make music. The A-s1100/200/3000 are the same family and they make music. Get a Yamaha. I have had a A-s1100 for over 3 years now. After 40 years in this game, this is my keeper amp. I also have a 1200gr with a Denon 103 and a MS Nova II turntable setup plugged into the A-s1100. It makes music. The MC section on the A-s1100 holds it's own with $500 phono amps. My 2 cents.

 

Cool, thanks. Can't wait for it.

 

Does anyone have the black A-S1100? I'm curious if it has metal switches and knobs like the silver. I'm assuming so, but want to be sure. The large knob in this image looks like the plastic one on my R-N602 while the smaller one next to it looks metal:

https://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/PI...90.1009451158.1549863580-375185639.1514317736

It would really suck if any were actually plastic.

The features page states: "Moreover, the dials and tone controls are machined aluminum knobs for a richly textured finish and graceful touch."

A-S1100 - Features - Yamaha - United States

 

The higher-up A-S series Yamahas sound great; fairly lively (by which I mean involving, not bright.) I think any of those, considered in isolation, would be an ideal mate for P3ESR's. But the McIntosh amp has, for lack of a better descriptor, a stability and solidity (as well as impeccable tonality) that is something you might not want to pass up after hearing it.

Or, to put it more simply -- buy the Yamaha if you want to dance; get the McIntosh if sonic perfection (and resale value) appeals.

 

The McIntosh has substantially better THD at ALL output power levels:
“Total Harmonic Distortion 0.005% maximum with both channels operating from 250 milliwatts to rated power, 20Hz to 20,000Hz”

, than the Yamaha:
“Total Harmonic Distortion Plus Noise PHONO MM to REC OUT
(20 Hz to 20 kHz, 2.8 Vrrns) 0.005%
PHONO MC to REC OUT
(20 Hz to 20 kHz, 2.8 Vrrns) 0.02%
CD, etc. to SPEAKERS OUT
(20 Hz to 20 kHz, 50 W/8 Q) 0.025%”.

Intermodulation distortion not specified for the Yamaha,
for the McIntosh, it’s extremely low:
“Intermodulation Distortion 0.005% maximum, if the instantaneous peak power is 200 watts or less per channel with both channels operating for any combination of frequencies from 20Hz to 20,000Hz”.

The damping factors of the two are good.

The Yamaha has PHONO inputs both for “MM” and low output “MC” cartridges.
The McIntosh, for “MM” (compatible with high output “MC” cartridges) only.

The McIntosh has “MONO/STEREO MODE
By default the Stereo Mode is active for all Input Sources however, any Input Source may be assigned to Mono Mode”.
In the Yamaha’s Manual I didn’t find it.
But for your needs, you write “For two channel stereo music only”, so if it’s actual for you, for you to see.

Neither has the internal MONITORING function, for those who need it.

 

Instead of 'researching' why not go and listen to them and then decide purely on sound quality? Price doesn't relate to sound of course. Measurements don't tell you which sounds best.

 

Right.

In my system, with three “generations” of integrateds having each “0.007…0.009%” THD, good or very good damping factor, absolutely silent, they always did and THEY DO!

When using the components well mutually meeting their parameters, in normal mode, without overload.

 

Going by their alleged specs, both amps are so low in noise as to be completely inaudible. Yamahas float the ground which make it quiet in most any system, regardless of dirty mains power.

 

I have the black version and it does have metal knobs. The build is on a whole different level from the R-N602.

 

Not sure if this helps....but I traded for a 2100 a few weeks ago (from a fellow Hoffman member that upgraded to a different integrated). I spent 2 or 3 days with it before it sold. I was quite impressed with it's build quality and overall sound. Really a nice piece at the price point.

 

Thanks for this YT link. Very interesting (most interesting part of this thread, actually!). Interestingly, the 3000 seems to be available at about US$5k at present, from some vendors.

 

Can't wait for the A-S1100. If an updated MAC7200 comes out with Spotify and AirPlay streaming and I can afford it in 5 to 10 years, I might give it a try. Until then I'm going to enjoy my A-S1100, unless it doesn't sound any better than my R-N602! If it doesn't then back it goes. I really am looking forward to testing the theory that amps don't matter with the P3ESRs. Curious if Alan Shaw is right. I'm guessing he won't be but we'll see. Another guy I spoke to said it's kind of like horse power in cars. Yes, all cars can go the same speed, but higher end models go with more ease.

 

Be sure to check out his other videos on the A-S1100. Search his channel. His videos were the final tipping point for me in favor of the A-S1100.

 

Thanks. That does help. The S1100 and S2100 are identical for my use. The 2100 only adds a better headphone amp and balanced inputs, neither of which I would use. The rest is identical, so what you heard will apply to the S1100 as well. Do you know what he upgraded to and what his thoughts were on the upgrade?

 

Ha! I was just about to post a "what Alan Shaw would say" response.

But I'm gonna bet you enjoy the 1100 more than the one you have now. Happy listening!

 

Interesting. I was wondering what they meant by floating ground and why they would do it. The power connector doesn't even have a ground plug.