You (didn't) ask for it!! Nat King Cole Capitol matrix and take numbers, misc.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Oct 2, 2013.

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  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I got this from Acoustic Sounds. Can you read now? That's my "sticky" saying LEFT UP..

    _D2Z7421-66.jpg
     
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  2. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    That's great, thanks!

    (Your sticky is blocking the "engineer" field);)
     
  3. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    If "FS" = False Start, what does "LFS" represent?
     
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Long False Start.
     
  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Wait, I might have a Xerox. Let me check..
     
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The kind lady at RTI made a Xerox of the top AND bottom, bless her.

    It sez (and I quote):

    Engineer: Kraus.
     
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  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
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    Jordan, per your request:

    _D2Z7400-45.jpg
     
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  8. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Thank you, Steve.
     
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Can you read anything on there? I have no Xerox of this..
     
  10. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    No, not really. If the master numbers weren't so prominent I'd have no clue as to what that was.
     
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Here's a little blurb I stumbled upon today regarding (but not mentioned by name) the 1963 release of "When You Belong to Me" --
    Screen shot 2016-01-04 at 1.47.49 PM.png
    Still seems so odd to see a non-Capitol LP that contains a first-ever release of a Nat Cole recording!
     
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  12. Kkfan

    Kkfan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Music City, USA
    A fantastic thread, Steve! Thanks for sharing all that info.
     
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  13. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    You're welcome. I felt a need to get it in writing for some reason.
     
  14. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Anyone have anything to add?
     
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  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Well, the new way keeps Jack Arenas on his toes! I'm always amazed that he's able to keep anything straight, considering the vast amount of stuff he oversees (Capitol, UA, Liberty, et al), and the numerous locations where tapes and files are stored. I'm sure he's a busy beaver.
     
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  16. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    You want take numbers?
     
  17. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Yeah.
     
  18. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    A few random tunes to start...

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
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    You think those are the actual issued takes? Always hard to tell. John Kraus once told me that he cut EVERY full take, all of the holds, spares, etc. on 45 acetates for the A&R staff..
     
  20. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    I've seen these take numbers for these three songs elsewhere, so I'm confident that these are the master take numbers. But I have seen cases where the take number on Nat Cole acetates does not correspond with conventional wisdom.
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
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    I love it when they write the EQ right on the label. They did it on the song cards in the Phono reels as well. Usually really dreadful EQ!
     
  22. Perisphere

    Perisphere Forum Resident

    Look on that ref for 'Illusion'--'70 CY HP' notated....wonder why they thought that necessary?
     
  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Jordan asked me, if I had any complete session info (false starts, long false starts, etc.), in addition to the master take numbers.

    I have a few, but understand that I can actually do that for only a handful of songs (the ones still on a session reel), plus the AFTER MIDNIGHT outtake songs but only the ones that survived with an actual session legend. The stuff that was reboxed kept the master number and the take numbers but not the rest of the info.

    So, after consulting my Xerox sheets, this is what I have. Sorry it's not more, but as I stated, I only copied what I worked on, and that was just for the ease of finding it again in case we goofed up (which we did more than once in mastering). The lack of complete session info is due to the great vault purges of 1959, 1969, etc. The masters survived and some outtakes, but the session legends were dumped. Note: Between the vault purge of 1959 and 1969, Nat had died and Gillette ordered ALL Nat saved, so anything Nat recorded after 1959 is complete on session reels. I didn't Xerox any of the NAT "KING" COLE STORY stuff other than a few songs, sorry. I had no idea anyone would care about session info this late, or that the info wasn't already out there somewhere. Sorry 'bout that!

    Also note that the "A" takes on three-track after 1959 were compiled on master reels and only the "B" reels were left intact as session reels. I got the "A" takes when working on the Nat stuff only (didn't need the B reels) so I didn't see much session info anyway. The few that I did were photographed!

    Here ya go, in NO order:
    -------------------------------------------------------


    NAT KING COLE “breakdown” info


    Orange Colored Sky stereo remake 36115AA

    1 FS, 2FS, 3 2:40, 4 :17, 5 FS, 6 FS, 7 :40, 8 :50, 9 2;33, 10, 2:38 MASTER UNDERDUB, 11 FS, 12 2:38 NG, 13 2:38, 14 FS 15 2:38 O/D M PULLED TO SWOL 1613


    Wild Is Love 3/1/60 33335

    1/fs, 2/ fs, 3 2:03, 4/fs, 5 2:05, 6/fs, 7 LFS 1:15, 8 LFS 1:20, 9 FS, 10 FS, 11 2:02, 12 FS, 13 LFS, 14 2”02 M with edit piece.

    Edit piece insert bar 69 take 1 M


    33336 100’s & 100’s Of Girls

    Test #1, 1/LFS, 2/2:36 Master


    19893 Non Dimenticar “noise on vocal C mike and pops 2592

    1/fs, 2/fs/, 3/fs, 4 2:47M


    19892 Coo Coo Roo Coo Coo Palmoa POPS C

    1/fs, 2/fs, 3/fs, 4/fs, 5/fs, 6/fs, 7/fs, 8/fs, 9 3:03 no master


    19891 Give Me Your Love

    1-/FS, 9 2:10, 10/fs, 11/fs, no master


    Hold all takes as per Gillette/

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    10 July 57 Reel 2 of 2

    17286 The Song Is Ended

    10/ng, 11/ng, 12/ng, 13/xx, 14/PB, 15 2:44 marked master.


    17287 You’ll Never Know

    1/pb, 2/ng, 3/pb, 4/ng, 5/ng, 6/ng, 7 2:43, 8/ng, 9/ng, 10/ng, 11/ng, 12 2:43, 13/xx, 14 2:42 marked master.


    17288 Just For The Fun Of It

    1/ 2:32, 2/ng, 3 2:34 marked master. Note:


    “See Reel 2A of 31 July 57 session 6175 i.c. use tk 12 for W903


    Album Hold per Gillette.


    00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

    12/19/56

    16302 I THOT ABOUT MARIE (how it’s spelled on box!)

    1/fs, 2/fs, 3/fs, 4 blank, 5 blank, 6 blank, 7 3:05 OK, 8/ng. 7 marked as master


    16303 Where Can I Go?

    1/2/3/4/ NG, 5 :254 Marked master

    Hold Per Gillette 4/28/59

    9-4-56

    15897 Just You, Just Me

    1/fs, 2 2:57 3-6 mg, 7 3:00 dubbed to phono reel and removed to 782 album 10-2-56


    15898 I Was A Little Too Lonely

    1/fs, 2/fs, 3/2:52, 4-6 NG, 7/2:55, 8/2:57 marked master ALBUM HOLD LG

    15788 You Can Depend On Me 1-9 no good, 10/3:52 dubbed to Phono Reel 1927 Checked 9/30 59 HOLD FOR ALBUM


    15789 Candy

    1-4 NO GOOD con’t on next roll.

    Steve note: “Take “4” is an early composite edit of takes 1, 2, 3 and 4, that someone in the 1950s attempted to make into a release track. Unnissued. See take 8 on separate reels for issued (1980s) take.


    15789 Candy 5-7 NG 8/3:53 Checked 9-30-59 HOLD, removed 10/25 see leader at top.

    15790 Sweet Loraine (sp).

    1/fs, 2/fs, 3/fs, 4 4:33 marked master removed to album 782 10-2-56.

    15791 Paper Moon (how it appears on legend)

    1-4 NG, 5/3:06 master dubbed to phono reel 1927, removed to 782 10-2-56

    HOLD FOR ALBUM

    9/21/56

    15922 Blame It On My Youth 1/3:07 MASTER Removed to W2-782 10-2-56 GD


    15923 What Is There To Say

    1-13 No Good, 14/3:30 MASTER

    ALBUM HOLD after dub to Phono 1933

    Hold, checked 9-3059

    LEE HOLD
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
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  24. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Beautiful, Steve. Thank you!
     
  25. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
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