Your Vinyl Transfer Workflow (sharing best needledrop practices)*

No kidding Grant. You really thought I didn't know? And you are thinking of DJ direct drive tables. Again, it isn't the tables I am talking about.

 

Some members on here (not you) think I am some bone head that doesn't understand the need for OS upgrades. That is insulting to my intelligence. Statements like, "You have a lot to learn about OS," are condescending. I am sure they are meant well but not cool.

I am well aware for the need for OS updates but every time an OS comes out they hail it as the best thing since slice bread. What they put in Windows 10 could have gone into Wondows 7 or 8 and Vista was a freaking disaster. Windows 98 had 9000 bugs in it. So I think I am justified in calling Windows programmers CRAZIES. But please members don't talk down to me. Simple, not complicated. I was writing programs on punch cards before a lot of you were born.

 

Welcome to the thread! Buy the best interface you can afford. Many music stores like Long & Mcquad offer in store credit. You pay it off in one year as opposed to a credit card. With in store credit you can buy a real expensive USB ADC for 20% down and only paying $50 a month for a year. Most people stick to a $150 - $200 interfaces. Although they are good I suggest you go for higher. The $300 - $500 range are just better. Remember any ADC/DAC is only as good as it's analog section. And great analog sound does not come cheap.

* 24/44.1 is good enough. Many professional recordings are still done at 24/44.1 and some even at 16/44.1. If you must use a high sample rate stick to 88.2, 176.4 or 352.8. These will be an even ratio down to 44.1 khz. Not that 96 or 192 khz is bad but if you stick to the ones mentioned your 16/44.1 CDs will sound better.

* Don't get caught up in this 32 bit / 32 FB nonsense. It is a waste of harddrive space. All editing software handles your files at 32 bit so there is no need for the saving your file at silly high bit rates. At the studio we never saved anything to 32 bit /32 FB so there is no need for you to. The studio PCM archival format is 24/352.8 not 32/352.8. Don't get caught up in the hype.

* The level you record at are very important.
- 18 dbfs RMS (not peak) and don't go over - 6 dbfs PEAK.

* Don't mix pro and consumer levels up.

* keep your cables short.

* Beyond removal of hum, clicks, pops and surfaced noise avoid over processing your files. Too much processing will effect the sound quality of your file. Avoid high Qs such as 8 or 16. I would avoid graphic EQ as well. Stick to parametric EQ. Q 's between 0.5 and 2.5 are best. Avoid EQ moves more than + 3 db.

- Buy a BELT DRIVE TURNTABLE. If you insist on a direct drive table by a good DJ table like the Technics 1200. MC carts are best but unfortunately are expensive. Get a sonic or wet vacuum cleaner for records. If you can get a cart with a fine line stylus.

- Always monitor with speakers never with headphones. Cans are good for editing and noise removal but not for EQ.

Just some advice. Good luck....hope this helps.

 

Both ways are fine.

 

Sorry! That was never my intention. But, you never know since we don't know each other personally. It's sometimes hard to tell when someone is speaking in jest.

But, here is where I disagree. But, you know, since Windows 8 and 8.5 was a PR disaster, and designed poorly, they decided to just go to a new version.

Who I think are the crazies are the Microsoft bosses that fired their programmers and testers and made the user the guinea pigs. That's supposed to make up for the losses in revenue they suffered, but, still...

No one is talking down to you, but please speak to me. I am right here. But, you did say that you weren't very knowledgeable with computers, so...people take others at their word. Like I said, we don't know each other personally, only through what we say here.

 

Code:

.         job ...
.         compile cobol
[code]
.         link
.         run
[data]
.         eoj

I remember well this sheet! In my early jobs I made programs in Cobol, Fortran and Asiris.

And I even operated myself these programs on that huge computer IBM 360. "opi brk 1..."

My next generation work nowadays with C, C++, javascript, Python, Ruby, MongoDB and so on.

 

We learned all that in high school, but only the math [sexual slur] cared. I'm so old we didn't even have the words 'nerd" or "geek" yet.

 

Just curious. Why do people want to transfer their LPs to digital? Reading through some of this, it sounds like it would take far more time to transfer each recording to the digital realm than it would just to listen to the music. I'm so tired of dealing with the inconsistently behaving, finicky, stupidly designed pieces of software and the hardware failures that the computers at work impose upon me every day that the last thing I can imagine wanting to do is fool with software and computers to create copies of music that are reliant on a computer for play when I already have the music in hand in physical form. What's the benefit besides presumably being able to preserve the original disc without playing it (I can remember occasionally transferring a rare LP to cassette tape for that reason)? Or is there some other motivation here?

 

For me I prefer the mastering of the LP's over their CD counterparts. Most CD's are mastered to loud. The LP usually not so much or at all.

And I can have a physical form in burning it to a CD or USB for play by a device.

 

But why not just play the record? It's already in physical form.

 

See above in parenthesis (). Portability, primarily, for me.

 

He told you. For replay on devices other than the turntable. When you want to listen elsewhere, for instance.

I like to listen to some albums in a darkened room. If I want to listen to a double album, I need to switch the lights on three times to turn the album over. If I have the thing digitised, I can play it all in one go without spoiling the mood, and I can move on to other albums without further moves from the armchair.

 

Let's talk about the best subsonic and ultrasonic software filters related to needledrops processing.

Because I don't want to destroy my subwoofer and tweeters and at the same time I want to keep as much as possible undistorted information from vinyl, I did some research and experiments with my needledrops to output the best possible quality.

I even found the tuning frequency of my subwoofer at 23 Hz. With the jumping beans method.

I record in native DSD128 and convert to DXD (wav 352.8/24) for processing. The result is a best quality sound but with huge noise from the DSD in ULF and UHF. So I need filters to eliminate that noise and protect my speakers.

So far I found the best filters are:
- subsonic filter:
Butterworth High-Pass at 17 Hz order 3
(the 22 Hz information is reduced by only 0.7 dB and 32 Hz information by under 0.1 dB.)
- ultrasonic filter:
Bessel Low-Pass at 40 kHz order 4
(the 20 KHz information is reduced by only 0.35 dB and the upper remaining noise doesn't matter because after converting the file to 96/24 all leftovers and noise above 48 KHz are wiped out by conversion).

What is your opinion and experience about these things?

 

10 go to 20
20 print “Why so serious? ”
30 go to 20
Run

that’s about as far as I got in programming

 

The LP record doesn't fit into my smartphone. I didn't took a hammer to fix this, I make digital recordings. Better quality than those crappy CDs for the masses.

 

That's an infinite loop your code.

 

Whoops...

 

This has been answered many times by many people on this forum throughout the years. Even our host had wondered at some point. I'll try this again:

1) We transfer our records to digital because there are things we cannot get in digital form. Some things just never got transferred because the master tapes were lost, damaged or destroyed, or are not available for licensing. One of the biggest reasons is simply that no one at a record label cared, or cared to get it right.

2) Sometimes, all that is available in the digital realm is a bad mastering, usually one where compression/limiting, or excessive EQ was applied. The vinyl version offers a better sound.

3) Many of us who do our own transfers have the skills and the tools to create better quality masters than the record labels do.

4) It's a sense of accomplishment, a rewarding, relaxing hobby, or semi-pro activity.

5) Many of us transfer old, used vinyl records that may be in less than pristine condition. We do not want the crackles and pop, or any other noise. Our aim is to restore the sound to the way it was when it was new, out of the shrink wrap. Some of us go a step further and make the music sound like it came from tape, painfully removing all evidence of it being sourced from a vinyl record.

6) It's fun and keeps us at home and out of trouble.

7) Because we can transfer out LPs and 45s to digital, we can take them whenever and wherever we want: in the car, while walking/jogging, at work, at the park, whatever. We aren't stuck at home in a sweet spot.

8) Transferring out vinyl to digital provides us reliable backups in case something happens to the records, and things DO happen. That Fleetwood Mac "Rumours" LP Steve Hoffman did about a decade ago? If my place burned down, so will the records. This way, I have good backups stores somewhere else so I don't lose my investment.

9) Again, there are many, many things that will never, ever officially make it to CD, download, or streaming. I collect pop/R&B singles and albums from the 60s, 70s, and 80s, and a lot of that stuff, single edits, different mixes, mono, will never make it (think Universal warehouse fire), so it is up to we who have the records and the capability to preserve what we can. Someone has to.

You may have computer issues at work, but those are work computers. Your IT people are in charge of that. But, my home computers run flawlessly. I have no issues with them, and the pro-audio software I use are very stable and reliable. That's why the software I use is expensive. If I have a computer issue, I am my own IT department. I know how to fix and maintain my computer, so I have no issues. If I do encounter a problem, it is the hardware. In that case, it's up to me to deal with it.

I cam also tell you that when we do our transfers and such, it gets us closer to the music because we are involved in the process. If one is like me, I can go through every second of each song, every fade, every transient. I am enjoying the music, and I consider the process fun and relaxing. You may be different.

Did you read all of what he wrote? Too many CDs were mastered poorly, meaning they were excessively compressed/limited, and/or EQ'ed badly e.g. too much bass or treble.

 

One more; if there's a noticeable fault with the CD issue of a recording, a fault which is not present on the vinyl, I need to make a copy of the vinyl to place a non-faulty version into my digital library instead of the CD rip which has the fault.

 

it's fun to do the needle drops and as I declick with headphones I listen on a different level.

I was concerned about this for a time. I highlighted and pasted this noise and played it I could not even hear it I even cranked up the volume even at near full volume I couldn't hear it and my woofers were completely motionless, so on my system I don't think it's an issue.

I completely agree with you, very well stated!

The one thing I can add. I currently have a very expensive cartridge I estimate it cost me about $1 in wear for every record I play.

 

Would appreciate some help for M/S tips

So I have a normal L/R file in Audacity

1) How do I then convert it to an M/S recording

2) when I've done all the editing I need - how do I then "merge" it back to mack it the L/R stereo recording it was initially, plus the changes?

Any help appreciated

 

What do you need it in M/S for?

 

Editing some noise / clicks out of a needledrop

 

I don't think Audacity has a built-in M/S Encoder. But I think you can fake it using the Vocal Reduction and Isolation tool.

Copy the tracks so you have 3 copies.

1. On Track 1 set it to Remove vocals (Low 0 Hz, High 20Khz*) (Depends on sampling rate)
2. On Track 2 set it to Isolate vocals (Low 0 Hz, High 20Khz*) (Depends on sampling rate)
3. Select both tracks
4. Mix and Render
5. Select mix and render and invert it
6. Select the original unaltered version with the Mixed version
7. Mix and Render

If you did this properly, there should be an empty track. If so you can use it as an M/S encoder.

 

So know that I know it works here's the step by step. I am using the strength setting of 1.0. It shouldn't really matter what it is, as long as their the same but just to let you know. (I'm also using Audacity 2.3.3)



Stereo to M/S

1. Import stereo recording
2. Make a copy so there are two copies
3. On Track 1 set it to Remove vocals (Low 1 Hz, High 20Khz*) (Depends on sampling rate)
4. On Track 2 set it to Isolate vocals (Low 1 Hz, High 20Khz*) (Depends on sampling rate)
5. Make any necessary M/S changes (NR, Click removal, etc)

(Make sure to never make any global changes to the whole file while it's in M/S like making it louder, adding eq or compression, Trust me)

M/S to Stereo

1. Select both tracks
2. Mix and Render
3. Make any necessary global changes (Tone control, Amplification, etc)
4. Export