Your Vinyl Transfer Workflow (sharing best needledrop practices)*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Vocalpoint, May 11, 2011.

  1. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    The CD had poor bass. Shhhhhhh! People will hear you. Probably a vinyl master copy tape. O.k. the truth is the engineer made the CD sound crappy to piss you off. I hear this is the latest craze in mastering.

    My point is the fade out times for the CD can be different resulting in longer or shorter timings.
    We call it ramp times. If the fade out was 12 seconds then the ramp time would be 12 seconds. No one does that anymore. They wait until the last 2 - 3 seconds near the end and then quickly pull down to fade to infinity. This is done to preserve detail. The old way minimized noise during the fade.
     
  2. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Almost 5 am here guys. Great confab but the fat man has to roll. I have to go the 24 hour pharmacy to get my daily dose of Methadone. (No joke. 15 years on the stuff. 55 ml)

    And then I gotta eat and hopefully get my 2 hours of CPAP sleep..Maybe 3 if I am lucky.

    See ya later. ....gotta sign off.
     
    Brodnation likes this.
  3. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    you can listen for yourself I would appreciate you professional opinion. Oh in regards to your post above. I am a member of NA the program works Saturday was my 35 year anniversary.
     
    Brodnation likes this.
  4. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    I'm not an audiophile by the usual definition, I consider myself a "mid-fi" person. That means I like good audio, but I will only go so far, I disagree with the voodoo aspect, and there are other, sometimes more important considerations than highest audio quality, such as looks and compatibility, and it has to be affordable.

    No, I have this one, with an Ortofon OMP currently with a 20 stylus:



    It's actually quite a very good design, but its designers had other goals in mind than you apparently do :) I admit I detect rumble, but I only notice it when cleaning up digitisted tracks, otherwhise it is almost unnoticable. And I can't really put my finger on it but my suspicion is that it's caused by ringing of the light aluminium platter, not the motor.
     
    PhilBiker likes this.
  5. PhilBiker

    PhilBiker sh.tv member number 666

    Location:
    Northern VA, USA
    I love my close-and-play P-mount direct drive SL-J33. The NOS cart I have has a nude elliptical that tracks as well as my microlines and I've never heard less inner groove distortion.
     
    anorak2 likes this.
  6. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    The denoise filter in Audacity first asks you to mark a noise-only section and then presumably removes that. It depends on what section you give it to "learn" the noise pattern, typically there are only very short silent sections on most records. Presumably it's a mix of both the groove noise and the master tape noise, or you would hope that.

    It's well understood that any "cleanup" filters only exchange one problem for another, because at the end of the day they can't tell unwanted artefacts from content, so they should be used very conservatively. A lot of the time they get it quite good.
     
  7. Brodnation

    Brodnation The Future Never Dies because Tomorrow Never Knows

    Location:
    Canada
    I used to be a big fan of NR and used it on Vinyl rips. Luckily I kept the master files pre NR so I was able to re-render them without it. It's really not necessary unless the noise is real bad
     
    c-eling and arisinwind like this.
  8. Grant

    Grant Senior Member

    Location:
    United States
    The better (more expensive) noise reduction algorithms allow the user to tweak the parameters. And, of course, it's trial and error which means that using NR requires lots of time and patience, and being creative.

    A few people here seem to be advocating rules and regulations for using cleanup tools. My philosophy has always been whatever works. There are no rules. To me, having rules suggests an authoritative mindset. Well, audio doesn't conform to rules, so why should you?
     
  9. c-eling

    c-eling I never dreamed another way.

    I messed around with it a few years ago, but since I listen to them on the big system (and probably due to my age) I can never hear any of the floor so I don't bother with it anymore :laugh:
     
    arisinwind and Brodnation like this.
  10. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    True. True. Using the digital NR I was able to remove the pumping on a DBX recording. It was like a magic. :)
     
    anorak2 likes this.
  11. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    If it suits your needs and you are happy with it then don't fix what ain't broken.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
    DrZhivago, PhilBiker and anorak2 like this.
  12. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Sorry if this seems a bit harsh. It was meant to express my feelings in a light hearted manner. Although back in 1973, John Stephens defied the laws of physics with his famous 2 inch 40 track. Back then it had the same specs as the leading 2 inch 24 track. Impossible right? 40 tracks crammed on 2 inches of tape? And yet he did it. John was an ex-aerospace engineer. He later built black boxes for commercial airlines. And his tape machines were hand built! So maybe one day some clever dude will design a direct drive turntable that is even better than the best belt drive tables. :)
     
  13. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Does this member ever shut up! Oh wait....That is me! :(
     
    Brodnation and BrilliantBob like this.
  14. BrilliantBob

    BrilliantBob Select, process, CTRL+c, CTRL+z, ALT+v

    Location:
    Romania
    A proper manual method I use to make the Mid/Side channels and processing:

    Side channel (open a new instance (1) copy/paste the original):
    - invert the L channel phase (+180)
    - mix to mono (L: L50% R50% * R L50% R50%)

    Mid channel (open a new instance (2) copy/paste the original):
    - mix to mono (L: L50% R50% * R L50% R50%)

    Copy the R channel from instance (1) and replace the R channel from instance (2). Done. Now the L channel is MID channel and the R channel is SIDE channel in instance (2).

    processing...

    Back to normal:
    - MS decoding (L: L100% R100% * R: L100% R-100%) the instance (2) both channels.
    - swap the channels.

    Et voila, after the M/S processing, the instance (2) become the new original material. It's like magic.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
    Brodnation and john morris like this.
  15. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    I miss fixing extra-super-crappy Rap masters.
    One guy had put so much reverb and delay on his rap mix that it was soaking wet in effects. I told him please remix: Drop the infrasonic sub kick at 15 hz, loose all the reverb and delay, and turn up your keyboards. His whole mix was wet: kick, bass and Rap vocal. The remix was better. And the original mix was MONO. Ahhhhhh!
    I tried all the plug ins I had to fix it but in the end a remix was needed.
     
    BrilliantBob and Brodnation like this.
  16. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    What is "inner groove distortion?"
     
  17. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    The Techniques 1200 Mark 1 is the grandfather of the modern DJ turntable. Excellent. Put a good MC cart on there with a fine line contact stylus and you are flying high. I have seen Mark 2 for a little as $700 Can $. And as much as $1900.
    Check out the Ebay link.

    Technics SL-1200MK2 Direct-Drive DJ Turntable with new CHROME SKIN Installed! 37988653713 | eBay

    Pass the collection hat around here. I am sure each member would be glad to chip in $25 each to upgrade your table.
     
    anorak2 likes this.
  18. PhilBiker

    PhilBiker sh.tv member number 666

    Location:
    Northern VA, USA
    Brodnation and john morris like this.
  19. Anton888

    Anton888 Forum Resident

    Could anybody from the experts here give me some helpful advice, please?

    Yesterday I transferred a song from a 1980s LP. My turntable (EMT 938 with TSD 15SFL) is connected directly with my digital recorder (Tascam DR-07).

    For dealing with clicks and pops I use iZotope RX 7 advanced and it was relatively easy to remove them (my records are usually
    in very good condition).

    1. What I am not sure about is, how should I deal with surface noise? That is the sound one "hears" when the needle runs through the grooves,
    especially annoying in quiet parts or in between songs (I always listen with headphones).

    2. Out of curiosity I checked the DR of the song I digitized before (using foobar2000). It has a DR of 6 and I wonder, how can that be? Most LPs have a DR higher than 12. I ran it through the Thimeo Stereo Tool and now it is a DR 12.

    Before that, I digitized a Single 45Rpm by The Les Humphries Singers "Mexico", that song had a DR of 3!!! So, what is wrong here? The songs sound normal, I compared them with CD versions.
     
    PhilBiker likes this.
  20. Grant

    Grant Senior Member

    Location:
    United States

    I cannot give you specifics on how to tame surface noise, as all situations are unique. There are people here who have specific remedies, but what I do is just tackle the problem as it comes with several types of software or settings. Whatever works.

    I will say that people around here worry too much about dynamic range when dealing with vinyl.
     
  21. Reminded me of this:

     
    john morris, Grant and anorak2 like this.
  22. BrilliantBob

    BrilliantBob Select, process, CTRL+c, CTRL+z, ALT+v

    Location:
    Romania
    What's your recording volume?

    Usually the DR is very low if the recording volume is too high and the result is an overcompressed clipped material.

    I usually record at -9 dB with peaks up to -6 dB. Headroom for post-processing. Finally I boost the needledrop volume at -18 dB total RMS (0 VU) with peaks in -2 dB to -3 dB range. To avoid distortion, to obtain a proper DR and a pleasant sound.
     
    Anton888, Brodnation and arisinwind like this.
  23. marcob1963

    marcob1963 Forum Resident

    You have either set the recording levels too high or there's some sort of compressor limiter activated on your Recorder. I'm guessing its both.

    Use the Denoise (Spectral) on RX7 for surface noise.
     
  24. formbypc

    formbypc Forum Resident

    I'm confused by this. Surely if it was DBX encoded, all you do is put it through a DBX decoder?
     
  25. Apesbrain

    Apesbrain Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    Even back in the day, a complaint against DBX noise reduction is that in certain situations it can be heard at work as a "pumping" effect. I don't think this is inherent in the compansion technique as the technology has seen widespread use in professional applications. It was likely a result of improper calibration or over-use. In any case, the criticism stuck for some listeners.

    Up until recently the only way to properly hear these recordings was by use of old and scarce hardware, but it's interesting to see there is now a software decoder that claims to work:
    DxII Codec (software dbx-II and dbx-Disc compander)
     
    john morris and Brodnation like this.

Share This Page