Your Vinyl Transfer Workflow (sharing best needledrop practices)*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Vocalpoint, May 11, 2011.

  1. Anton888

    Anton888 Forum Resident



    I take care that the peaks are up to -6db. So it seems that concerning the DR I do not need to worry at all, thank you!
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
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  2. Anton - Check the sound settings in Windows to see if any enhancements have been turned. I had something similar happen to me after a Windows update. My recordings were overly bright and I found a brightness enhancement checked.
     
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  3. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Anton I know exactly what you are referring to. You can look back in the thread and find a lot of different views on noise reduction @Stefan posted some very useful information that helped me using the noise reduction in RX. Starting here Your Vinyl Transfer Workflow (sharing best needledrop practices)*

    Starting with this post I have found this removes that floor noise added from the needle riding in the groves. I pretty much follow this guide the one thing I do that's more aggressive is I denoise both channels instead of just the right. I have also been making a 32/96 wav file archive of all my needle drops before I denoise just in case I change my mind someday, would be a good idea if you start denoising.




     
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  4. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Yes, you are right. And anyone that tries to play back a DBX encoded tape without the DBX decode needs to be locked up. The tape in question was played back with the appropriate DBX decode. But unfortunately DBX can pump on: woodwinds, bass and keyboards. And in this case it was pumping like crazy. Unlistenable. The NR was used to get rid of the pumping. But the digital NR was not used to decode the DBX.

    I hope I cleared up the confusion sir. They are two types of DBX. Type 1 and 2.

    Type 1 is used on Professional multitracks.
    ie 2 inch 16/24/32/40 track machines.

    Type 2 is used for evething else:
    * cassette
    * cassette 4 and 8 track
    * narrow track semi-pro RTR formats.
    ie half inch 16 track.
    * VHS, Beta, S-VHS and Pro 3/4 inch HI-FI sound.
     
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  5. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    My experience as well. But in Professional applications DBX Type 1 is used. Where with cassette and cassette 4/8 track it is DBX Type 2. Although Type 1 and 2 work on similar principles they are not the same.

    The only problem I have heard with DBX pumping is on cassette 4 and 8 tracks. Real horrible pumping. But not on a 2 inch 24 track tape running at 30 ips. But regardless of how well you calibrate. (Very important!) tape dropouts can and do occur. Rare with 2 inch multitracks and quarter tapes but it does happen. And with DBX drops outs are magnified by 2×. If it is a 2 db drop out then DBX will make it a 4 db dropout. And 3 db dropout becomes 6 db! Ad infinitum.

    I have never heard any pumping on VHS or S-VHS HI-FI video tapes. How could anyone? The switching noise is louder. I have an answer to that question - If there was no switching noise could someone hear the DBX evil pumping? Back in the 90's JVC claimed that it had developed a new circuit that would completely get rid of AFM switching noise. I had such a unit. A S-VHS HI-FI editing VCR purchased in the late 90's. No switching noise. Not even on the EP MODE! And never once did I hear pumping. Of course I was using $10 S-VHS tapes. But AFM is AFM.

    And most people don't realize that most television shows from the 1984 - 1990 period only exist as 3/4 inch 525 NTSC / 625 PAL video tapes with HI-FI (AFM) sound. All encoded with DBX Type 2. These tapes have been used to make DVD releases of television shows. Anyone hear any pumping on those Dolby Digital soundtracks? Let me know.

    When DBX works right it is a thing of beauty but when it doesn't work right (miscalabration, etc)
    It is super nasty. But I agree. There is nothing inherently wrong with the dbx system.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
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  6. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    That has happened to me on my PC and phone!
    Keep an eye out for that everyone.
     
  7. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Ridiculous! DBX units are not scarce. Real easy to get a hold of.......ahhhh....If you know where to look. Saw a DBX Type 1 decoder at a pawn shop. And plenty of them for sale of Ebay.

    Real easy to get one. The studios 48 channels of DBX are kept in the basement along with the Telelcom 4 NR units. They are guarded by a fire breathing dragon. Look, as long as I know the password the dragon won't burn me into ashes. At the moment I can't remember the password. :)

    See....Real easy to get.......Maybe I could get the dragon drunk and sneak the DBX units out.
     
  8. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    If you don't have a really clean record then it doesn't matter how great your table, cart or needle is. So a good cleaner is your first line of defense. Nothing beats a sonic or wet vaccum cleaner. As well this is why some audiophiles spend a lot of money on turntables. The quieter the table the less groove noise.

    Get a cart with a fine line stylus.
     
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  9. formbypc

    formbypc Forum Resident

    Yup

    This too. This applies to all aspects of the engineering of the TT. The platter, the bearing, motor, drive mech, etc. as well as the pickup arm, cartridge and stylus. Precision engineering counts.
     
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  10. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    You didn't mention records (there were dbx encoded LPs for a short while). I assume they are type 2 as well?
     
  11. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Some mid-1980s cassette decks came with dbx, and they can be put to use as a standalone dbx decoder.
     
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  12. Grant

    Grant Senior Member

    Location:
    United States
    For a while I was NR'ing each channel individually, as L and R have different noise properties.
     
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  13. Anton888

    Anton888 Forum Resident

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  14. old45s

    old45s MP3 FREE ZONE

    Location:
    SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA
    I agree with everything you've said.. especially regarding the intended vol. variation with "Songbird" and "Go Your Own Way".
    After reading about 10 random pages of these posts I'm seeing a lot of people having issues with noise... maybe their cartridge is too sensitive or their records are really worn.
    When viewing the waveforms of my needle drops I SEE THE NOISE between tracks but can't hear it unless I really 'up' the volume, maybe because my vinyl in good condition.
    That all goes away anyway after I separate the tracks.
    I can see an issue with Classical music and all of its sections of silence DURING the track if you listen at loud levels.

    My only issue with "noise" is the end fades of some tracks of my 45 rpm singles where I have (in the past) manually raised the tonearm off the record (maybe a tad too early) and the stylus tip has nicked the wall of the groove.. whatever. That's remedied after the separation process with an (ever so slight) earlier fade.
     
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  15. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    And it don't come cheap.....
     
  16. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Not sure. Good question.

    O.k. the minimum spec requirements for DBX Type 1 are: 30 - 16 000 hz +-3db, signal to noise ratio 60 db (I believe that is unweighted.)
    A good wet vaccum cleaned record played back on a good table with a fine line stylus should've able to do 70 db 'A'weighted. But what is the signal to noise ratio of vinyl on a typical 70's table with an elliptical stylus? Anyone know?
    It should be Type - 1.
     
  17. Anton888

    Anton888 Forum Resident

    Could anybody please explain the reason for using a low pass filter and give me an advice concerning the setting(s) of it?
     
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  18. Some people use the low pass filter to remove high frequency noise from their needledrops. I don't use a low pass filter so I don't know what settings are best. I would think a steep drop starting at 20kHz maybe.
     
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  19. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Records cut out at 18 khz. Unless it's a half speed master. Then low pass at 22 khz perhaps.
     
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  20. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    If only I took my own advice. :(
     
  21. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Agreed. If he had access to a RMS meter then he could get the level at a nice - 18 dbfs RMS. But if you only have peak meter then don't peak over - 6 dbfs peak. Trying to read RMS leves from a peak meter is next to impossible. I have tried it - doesn't work.
     
  22. BrilliantBob

    BrilliantBob Select, process, CTRL+c, CTRL+z, ALT+v

    Location:
    Romania
    A Bessel low pass order 3 at 26 KHz is safe (no reduction of Dynamic Range and soundstage) and removes most of the garbage in highs range. The signal remains unaffected up to 22 KHz. Works well for wav 96/24 or other Hi-Res formats.
     
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  23. Anton888

    Anton888 Forum Resident

    Underneath my transfers there is a "Buzz" or "Hum" constantly.

    How can I get rid of it?

    Here are two seconds of that "noise" at the end of a song:

    Brumm.flac - FileFactory

    Any suggestions?
     
  24. What audio editing software are you using?

    To address why the hum is there. Can you hear it while the source is playing or is it just in the recording?
     
  25. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    @Anton88 Apparently it's 50 Hz hum from the mains. Is the ground wire between amp and turntable in place? If not apply it.
     
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