Your Vinyl Transfer Workflow (sharing best needledrop practices)*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Vocalpoint, May 11, 2011.

  1. Anton888

    Anton888 Forum Resident

    I am using iZotope RX and I can hear that noise even while the source is playing.

    I tried different wall sockets, but the noise is still there, just a bit quieter (like in the example).
     
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  2. Anton888

    Anton888 Forum Resident


    Unfortunately I do not have a ground wire. The turntable is connected with the amplifier and from there I record.
     
  3. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    That is the most likely explanation. Turntables need to be grounded with the amplifier, otherwhise hum will occur. Most better turntables and most better amplifiers have a connector for this. There are special wires for connecting the two, sometimes you need one with a plug specific for the make of turntable. What turntable and what amp do you have?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Anton888

    Anton888 Forum Resident

    Thank you anorak2, I found the socket on my amplifier.

    But, the back of my turntable looks like this:

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    My turntable is grounded to the separate Cambridge Audio phono amp. Unfortunately, to replace it I have to replace the entire arm.
     
  6. BrilliantBob

    BrilliantBob Select, process, CTRL+c, CTRL+z, ALT+v

    Location:
    Romania
    My turntable is grounded direct to earth through the steel water pipes and most of the residual electricity is gone (measured). No audible hum (there are still some hum remains at 50 Hz under -92 dB, removable by de-noise software). My Cambridge Alva Duo preamp is grounded also through the turntable ground cable.
     
  7. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Gosh, that is a pro turntable aimed at radio studios, so it uses XLR plugs instead of RCA. I googled up the manual.

    A9 Netzanschluß; A10 Erdanschluß; A11 Nf-Anschlüsse - EMT-FRANZ EMT 938 Bedienungsanleitung [Seite 10] | ManualsLib

    On page 10 chapter A11 it shows that the silvery screw next to the remote socket is "0V extern". I think this is it, try connecting that to the ground socket of your amp using a wire like the above.
     
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  8. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    That turntable is particular in having a grounded mains plug. This can increase the likelihood of a ground loop, where current flows over the ground connections of the signal connectors when a ground potential is induced in the power connector and chassis. If you use an XLR-RCA cable that also ties the (-) pin to ground, this possibility is increased. You might try a ground-lift plug or two-conductor power cable.

    Also, this pictured turntable should not be used with an external preamplifier. It has one built in. In fact, the particular order number/model of this turntable, 9938-110 (check yours, since you probably just found this picture on the internet) has not only a 47kOhm preamp, but also has a "pre-preamp" for the EMT TSD 15 moving-coil cartridge.

    With the internal phono pre, the turntable should be connected directly to "CD in" or other aux input, and the level knobs on the front panel increased until turntable volume is at least as loud as other components on your receiver. Turn them up further to see if signal can be increased over the hum.
     
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  9. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    My Rega P3 (with glasses platter) has no grounding cable. And it never hums. What gives?
     
  10. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    SOURCE! SOURCE! SOURCE!
    YOU CANNOT PURIFY A RIVER DOWNSTREAM...

    1. Clean your record until it is silent dead in the groove. No clicks, pops or surface noise. Or as good as you can get it. Whatever works: Wet vaccum, sonic cleaner, wood glue, oat meal bath....

    2. The quieter the table the more information it can pick up. And you won't get that with a direct drive turntable.

    3. Line or fine contact stylus will reduce the record surface noise by huge degree. Unfortunately they only come on MC cars. Not cheap. $700 - 1200.

    4. Phone preamp and cable.

    NUMBER 1 IS THE MOST IMPORTANT.
     
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  11. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Maybe you're using DC :)
     
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  12. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    I don't have any ground hum, but my recordings all have a 9 hz rumble that I easily remove with a 9 hz notch filter. I can't hear it, but I see it on the waveforms. After the 9 hz notch filter, the blank spaces are nice and smooth.
     
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  13. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Well, actually...
    [​IMG]
    (this filtration plant is for turning sewage wastewater back to drinking water, serving Orange County, California. Removes the artisanal bouquet that connoisseurs look for though..)

    Audio-Technica VM540ML - $250

    Results will vary. It is actually a smaller contact 0.6 or even 0.5 mil conical stylus, with lower friction, that can reach deep into the groove to avoid much previous wear, while the line contact means that any flaw along its line area is picked up.
     
  14. vinyldoneright

    vinyldoneright pbthal

    Location:
    Ca
    MicroLine or die for me
     
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  15. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Same here. I'm almost afraid for when my AT33PTGII is shot. Not sure if I want to buy another or try one of AT's other ML offerings.
     
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  16. Exotiki

    Exotiki The Future Ain’t What It Use To Be

    Location:
    Canada
    Hmm...I thought the VM540ML went out of production, but its back! VM540ML Dual Moving Magnet Cartridge

    Fantastic.
     
  17. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    I don't know but none of the Rega tables have a grounding cable. Apparently every table does not need a grounding cable. Nope, using AC. Oh, that was a joke.
     
  18. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Yea but for the best vinyl performance you need one. There was a trend in the 80's of putting fine line needles on cheap carts. Not that $250 is cheap. I mean $60 MM carts.
     
  19. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Yes, very clever sir and amusing but it is an
    equivocation fallacy.
    Talking about the fact that you can't restore detail that your system never picked up in the first place. If you CD player can't pick up low level detail no amount of speakers or amps will restore it for you because it isn't there. This is a long known audiophile concept.

    You can get rid of hum and noise but you can't restore lost detail.
     
  20. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    A MC for $250. Can't be very good. My Sumiko high output MC was $650 CAN in 2006. Gee, I thought you guys were audiophiles. No offence but MC carts are usually expensive.

    A know a guy who has a MC cart with a fine line stylus. Dead quiet in the grooves. clean highs. He has never experienced any issue. Also a find line needle has to be installed right. Oh so I am told.
     
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  21. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    I will say that you do know your vinyl sir. Very well versed. But be careful of the dunning-kruger effect.

    True story: Some guy wanted to know how to get the cool compression that he heard on the Jimi Jimi Hendrix film from Woodstock.

    Some dude answered. He did mention that all the Woodstock footage was done on 16 mm film. True.. So he starts to go into this long technical explanation of how the optical sound track of a 16 mm print has a sharp roll off after 8 khz. And that due to the blah blah blah of 16 mm that some unique form of compresion happens. He went into impressive detail. He really knew his film...

    Unfortunately the fellow didn't seem to realize that film sound is NEVER DIRECTLY RECORDED TO FILM. And that all the movie prints were knocked up to 35 mm. He had no idea that the music was recorded on a 1 inch 8 track. With synchronization code for the film on track 8. The music came from the 1 inch 8 track mixes. Not from a 16 mm optical soundtrack.

    And yet he knew so much.

    Great post. :wiggle:
     
  22. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Huh?! Any good phone preamp should have a 30 hz high pass filter in it. But, unfortunately many don't. But that 9 hz buzz or whatever has covered up detail. You need to get rid of it before the recordings. Please.....Do if for me......Please with Orange Blossom Honey on it....:mudscrying:
     
  23. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Apparently some members aren't ahhh....Fond of them.
     
  24. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    The effect, dumb people evaluating themselves as smarter than they are, doesn't quite apply here. It seems someone rather had incomplete or incorrect information, and our brain is wired to fill in that missing information to try to build a complete picture of what's happening. Someone stuck to their erroneous assumption too long, even with some contrary evidence, before their understanding of the situation was clarified.

    Similarly, my advice above about the turntable might be a complete non-starter, simply because I didn't see the possibility that the pictured turntable model that the poster discovered on the internet is actually completely incorrect (although I did note that possibility). It is unlikely that someone would use an internal preamp turntable along with an external preamp and not have realized something was drastically wrong with the sound.

    Being wrong causes subconcious emotional pain that we attempt to defend against.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
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  25. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    You have misunderstood the dunning-kruger effect. It is not "dumb people evaluating themselves." This is incorrect and a popular misconception over the web these days. The effect can and does happen to everyone.

    Dunning-Kruger effect, is a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general.

    In other words sir you could be real intelligent but be ignorant in Roman history. But because you watched a 20 minute video on Utube you now consider yourself to be an expert in Roman history. They don't even bother to check weather the facts in the video are even true. I have seen this nonsense over and over again.. It is worse in the Pro audio industry where every kid in his Mother's basement thinks he is Sir George Martin..

    The Dunning-Kruger effect does seems to be rampant among...."The Lights are on but nobody is home crowd."

    My point wasn't that you were currently being afflicted by it. That would be rude.
    But that we need to be on the watch out for overestimating ourselves. I run into the odd members who because they can adjust the tracking angle on their cart think that they are now DOCTOR VINYL.

    But yes....I agree on your table advice. :edthumbs:
     

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