Your Vinyl Transfer Workflow (sharing best needledrop practices)*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Vocalpoint, May 11, 2011.

  1. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bentonville AR
    Everything I know I learned here I believe it is good to give credit where credit is do.
     
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  2. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled meeeeee!

    Location:
    United States
    All it takes to find solutions to problems is to experiment, think outside of the box. Remember that there are no rules to this game. There are some bad ideas, fer sure, but no one says you can't do something. This isn't early 60s EMI!:D
     
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  3. bangkok19

    bangkok19 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Newcastle
    Perhaps you should remove the rumble at the initial stage of the needledrop... My Zen ifi Pre Amp has a "subsonic filter" which I've only ever required to use twice, but it cut out the rumble without any deterioration of SQ.
     
  4. Stan94

    Stan94 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris, France
    My Arcam preamp also has a rumble filter, I turn it off when I drop otherwise it's on. I want to record what's on the disc, rumble and all.
     
  5. Stefan

    Stefan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Same here. I never use a rumbles filter because they still roll off low frequencies that can contain some of the musical information. Since the cutting or mastering engineer has already rolled over some bass below a certain frequency and using ana analog filter (which means there'll still be some musical material down there), I don't want it further rolled off. Plus, in my experience, a lot of rumble occurs in the Side channel so I'd rather remove it myself after converting to Mid/Side.

    I took a quick look at the frequency curves for the rumble filter in the manual that came with my Lehmann Black Cube phono stage and decided there's no way I would ever use it!
     
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  6. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled meeeeee!

    Location:
    United States
    So I finally got Ozone 9 Advanced. I could have gotten RX9 advanced for another $50, or even a year of the Pro suite for $99, but this will do for now. That's almost $400 off!

    I've been playing around a lot with the Low End Focus and the Master Rebalance (different from the RX Music Rebalance), and even just used them on a needledrop this morning. I'm still trying to figure out how to add the EQ to the Tonal balance Control 2. @Stefan ? (Hope you don't mind my frequent tagging you, but you are the master at iZotope products here, and I couldn't find anything in their tutorials on this specific thing.)

    I also figured out about Dynamic EQ and used it on that needledrop. It works wonders for smoothing out problem frequencies. I overdid it a tad with the highs, but that's OK. The end result still turned out nice.

    Anyway, I think it was a worthy thing to move up to the Advanced version. This means they are probably close to introducing version 10 or something. I hope they offer a good upgrade deal on RX9 Advanced soon. That also has a few features I could use. In my mind, RX and Ozone go together. And, while the other packages like Nectar are also on sale, I should probably get those too.

    Anyone else here jump on iZotope's outrageous sales?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  7. darkmass

    darkmass Forum Resident

    Probably not quite in the way you mean, but I made a good iZotope sale purchase in October.

    I did look at iZotope's very recent sale information. They certainly were offering some amazing discounts on some fairly wide-ranging packages, just no offerings that I thought would add to the structure of my particular workflow. So I skipped the sale.

    My purchase in October was introductory pricing on the newly released RX9 Advanced. I was able to upgrade from RX8 Advanced for an introductory $149, not the more normal upgrade price of $399. Even if I don't necessarily use upgraded/new features, I like to keep my RX Advanced current.
     
  8. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled meeeeee!

    Location:
    United States
    Wow. I must have missed that because I am still running RX 7 Standard. I could sure use RX Advanced, but last time I looked they were offering it for $199, which isn't bad, but money's tight. But, for what I do, Ozone 9 Adv. was still worth it.

    And, I read the above comments about turning off the Subsonic filter on the phono pre. So, I decided to do just that, and wouldn't you know it? My phono amp took a dump in the right channel once I did that. Damn! Right when I was getting back into needledropping. The only thing I didn't check yet is turning the interconnects around to see if the problem switches sides. If not, that means it could also be the turntable cabling or cart.

    I do have a workaround if it's the phono stage but it's very inconvenient. I have a nice, expensive, near-new Sony receiver that's just been sitting around with a phono stage, but the speaker outs don't work because of a manufacturing flaw. But, I can use the phono stage. Problem is, the amp is huge and heavy, and I have no place to put it. I'll figure it out. I know it's not the computer or the amp in use because I plugged the tape deck into it and everything records and plays back fine.
     
  9. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    "Corner frequency of this filter is 60Hz, attenuation is 6dB/oct" - yeah, what the hell were they thinking?

    One need not rule out a properly-designed phono stage with hardware subsonic filter though - reducing THD and increasing headroom while being +/-0.1dB to 30Hz with an actual MM cartridge..:

    [​IMG]
    Don't think they've been properly designed up til now, though...
     
  10. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bentonville AR
    Congrats on your upgrade. I know it's worth it in the long run. I have RX8 advanced and ozone 6 advanced. I'm not sure what new features I would get. I think my current style is recording the record cleaning up excess resonance. I rarely EQ needle drops. I suspect if I had your collection I would find myself using ozone more often.

    Besides my system is in boxes and it may be months before I can put it back together.

    Another thing I'm realizing. I'm getting older and I may not be physically able to set the system up. One, I have to redesign my shelving. I have developed sciatica back from all the work from the move. Even after I get it done my plan requires that I place the power amps on top nearly 7 ft high. I know I can engineer a way to do it in stages. I don't trust the people I could hire to lift the amps up. Not really on topic but is an obstacle for me to continue doing needle drops.

    Problem solved. I can rent a bakers scaffold at home depot for $36 for 4 hours. I would buy one but I have to much stuff I don't use now plus I'm need to stop doing this kind of work.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
    Grant likes this.
  11. Stefan

    Stefan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Strangely enough, you can't really use Tonal Balance with EQ within RX becaus their facility to chain multiple plugsin does not provide monitoring! If you have another DAW that allows multiple plugins, add the Ozone EQ then Tonal Balance after and while monitoring, the Ozone EQ adjustments will show up in Tonal Balance. You can actually use any EQ you want before Tonal Balance but non-Ozone EQs won't show up within the Tonal Balance window. You'll have to use the EQ's own controls. You can also use Tonal Balance as a sort of averaging EQ match by loading in a track as a reference. I know you use Audition, so try it in that. When I've been using Tonal Balance, I normally use Cockos Reaper DAW. Tremendous program you can try for free and only costs about $60.

    I haven't seen any Black Friday RX9 sales as good as the one from October (I posted a series of links to those deals in this very thread actually), but perhaps the annual Boxing Week sales will have something more on RX9 (the current Cyberweek sale has the upgrade from RX standard to Advanced at $399 instead of the list price of $799).

    A good way to keep up with deals on iZotope stuff and other plugins is to keep an eye on the pluginboutique website. They frequently have the best prices on iZotope and other software. I just bought a iZotope's Iris2 synth plugin last week for $5 instead of $99! (I don't do much music making these days but retirement is coming soon so I'm collecting toys now :).
     
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  12. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bentonville AR
    @Stefan did you try to log in to Isotope? I did and I can upgrade my RX8 advanced for $149 and ozone 6 advanced for $99. Looks like regular upgrade prices.

    Never mind Grant has the standard version.

    I still don't know if either is worth upgrading for me.
     
  13. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled meeeeee!

    Location:
    United States
    Website bookmarked. Thanks! And, Izotope should clarify how to use the Tonal Balance2, maybe make a video for it.

    I have two other programs I can use the plugin with, Audition and Sound Forge, but I need to reinstall Reaper. I had it years ago but never really used it. But, now, my bigger issue is tracking down my phono preamp issue. The right channel went out this morning when I decided to turn off the subsonic filter after reading yours and Ghost Rider's posts. I should have left it alone. :sigh:
     
  14. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled meeeeee!

    Location:
    United States

    Yes, the only way I was able to get Ozone 9 Advanced is because I own Ozone Essentials 7. I like their product portal.
     
  15. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled meeeeee!

    Location:
    United States
    Not that anyone really cares, but I fixed my ground problem. The channel problem is also gone. Looks like the issue was with the phono cable.

    Right now i'm running it through the phono amp on the Sony receiver Whew! I love my Cambridge Audio phono stage.
     
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  16. darkmass

    darkmass Forum Resident

    You mentioned the channel problem in a reply to me. While I had no insight into the true nature of your channel problem, something I wouldn't wish on anyone, I was hoping it was no more than a cable problem.

    Of course if the particular cable is captive on one end--sometimes the case with a turntable interconnect--the "simple" problem could be a pain to fix.

    Oh, if you can upgrade to RX Advanced from RX Standard for $200, that sounds to me like a very good deal. Nevertheless fiscal restraints can make it hard to take advantage of a deal no matter how good the deal is. There are always priorities.
     
    Grant likes this.
  17. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled meeeeee!

    Location:
    United States
    Well, on the Sony phono amp, the channel dropped out again four minutes into the album. Then, seven minutes later, the sound in the right channel slowly came back up, and remained normal for the second side. I was able to redo the first side of the album.

    After that, I decided that I don't like the sound of the Sony pre and connected everything back up to the Cambridge Audio phono stage, and the problem reappeared.

    So, it's down to the problem being cabling somewhere, or the cart itself. And, if the cart is the culprit, i'm going to be pissed! It's a $500 AT 150 mlx and sounds beautiful...when everything is working. I hope it's not the TT wiring because it's hard-wired into the tonearm and would be a real pain to replace.

    Well, the good thing is that all my music is on hard drives and I only do needledrops these days for the odd record I may find. Sucks, though.
     
  18. darkmass

    darkmass Forum Resident

    Yeah, truly sucks. No doubt you'll be doing some adroit cart pin connect swapping to help isolate the problem. I assume you left/right swapped the interconnects on your Cambridge Audio Phono Stage side to see if the problem changed sides. Same left/right connection swap on the TT end, if possible. That said, I suspect you have pretty good diagnostic skills, a few years in this avocation tends to build certain abilities. In my mind, a channel sound slowly coming back up seems to me less a matter of pure connection or cable fault and much more a matter of electronics going weird. A flaky interconnect is a cheap fix, and even a throw-away interconnect could be subbed in till you put your hands on an interconnect that fully met your standards. Weirding electronics, well "sucks" is the right word.

    I likely won't have a strong need to interchange throughout any investigation and repair you go through, but I wouldn't mind your posting thoughts and status here as you feel the urge. There are people I tend to pay attention to, and you qualify. :)
     
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  19. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled meeeeee!

    Location:
    United States
    I switch the L and R cables and nothing changed. The right channel is still fluffernutter. The soundcard input is fine when I dub cassettes from the tape deck and other sources.

    Oh, anyone know the best temperature to bake a cassette tape and at what temperature and for how long? I want to transfer a squeaky tape. I have a convection oven.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2021
  20. From the world wide internet web and deli - Place the tape in a convection oven for three to eight hours at 135 degrees F to 150 degrees F. Remove the flanges from the reels to prevent melting the tape. After baking, remove tapes from the oven and allow them to cool to the control room environment for 24 hours prior to working with the tapes.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2021
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  21. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    A convection oven can't go and stay low enough. The on-off hysteresis is too large. Mine is accurate with an IR thermometer, but the lowest setting is 170.

    If not a Nesco Snackmaster used for baking larger tapes (one of which I've got), a plastic tote with a lightbulb and a fan, just enough to bring it up to 130F measured with a remote weather thermometer or such. Or a work light in that home oven. Baking is really a chemical de-hydrating, and the closed shell might need to be opened.

    The squeak can also be the felt pressure pad. With a dual capstan deck, the pad can be removed. You can soak the pad in drying PTFE lubricant, if not the deck's head itself.
     
  22. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled meeeeee!

    Location:
    United States
    The lowest setting on mine is 125 degrees.

    Yes, I am familiar with baking tapes and why it needs to be done. Since it is in a 70s-era tape shell, I will have to pry it open as there are no screws.

    Neither of my dual-capstan deck are working so all I have is a single capstan deck. I have hundreds of tape cases I can use for a replacement. No need for me to go through all the trouble you outline just to get a single playback from this tape.
     
  23. darkmass

    darkmass Forum Resident

    I hope that means you did the L/R swap at only one end of the cable as a starting point. If the single end swap is what you did, the same channel retaining the problem means your problem is after the swap point, and everything before the swap point is probably fine.

    If, on the other hand, you did the L/R swap at both ends of the same cable at the same point in time and the problem remained on the right channel throughout, you've eliminated that particular interconnect cable as the problem, but have no new information concerning whether the problem is before that cable or after that cable. However, given that dubbing a cassette is fine at your soundcard input, and the sound card input is fine from non-turntable sources, it sounds like your problem is certainly in your turntable originated chain. Assuming you did the L/R swap at only one end of the cable, and that cable was the interconnect from your TT to your phono preamp, that strongly suggests a phono preamp problem.
     
  24. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled meeeeee!

    Location:
    United States
    I'm not done diagnosing the problem between work and other stuff.
     
  25. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled meeeeee!

    Location:
    United States
    :laugh: Aw man! You know why my right channel was dead? I accidentally connected the right RCA cable output to the input of the head amp instead of the output. :oops:

    Oh well, the good thing is that I discovered that when I switched out my MIT interconnects with some Straightwire I had lying around, I got a fuller sound! It's not as clean as the MIT, but the Straightwire fattens up and increases the dynamics of the lean sound of the 150 mlx cart I use.

    Sooo embarrassed! It's like the time I built my first computer and spent two and a half hours trying to figure out why it wouldn't power up. Turned out I forgot to connect a power cable. That one was forgivable. But this?:biglaugh:

    Now i'm back to trying to solve my ground loop hum.:sigh: It's not the turntable, at least.
     
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