Your Vinyl Transfer Workflow (sharing best needledrop practices)*

While possibly not the best device for needle drops, I'd like to defend Sound Devices. I'm not an expert on sound recording, however, I do use the Sound Devices Mix Pre III for my video projects and I find the results to be quite excellent. Many pros in the television and film world love Sound Devices equipment, and I purchased this device based on recommendations of working sound recorders I knew when I was living in LA. That doesn't mean this is necessarily the right device for needle drops obviously, but I don't think it's fair to knock the company. Furthering that point, the manufacturers definitely know the specs they refer to. They are not simply "reading what 24 bit supports." Their explanation is due to 32 bit float recording and can be found here: https://www.sounddevices.com/32-bit-float-files-explained/
I don't fully understand it or would pretend to, I'm a photographer, but I have used the 32 bit float feature quite a bit and have recovered clipped sound successfully for my own projects. Additionally, I have recorded sound with this device and turned it into more professional sound editors and they have always been satisfied with my files.
Anyways, Sound Devices is a well established company in the field recording industry, and while my device is more towards the amateur market, I do not believe it to be fair to accuse them of making up specifications.

Thanks for the advice on the settings, and I take your comment as constructive despite the unfair treatment of Sound Devices.

 

I certainly read about them before posting my reply - and I can also smell a yellow snow job.

Plain and simply, there is no 32 bit ADC hardware. There is no hardware that has the dynamic range to record both the vibration of molecules in a 1 ohm resistor while also recording lighting strikes. If the signal going into the conversion chip clips, it can't be recovered. The best ADCs top out around 130dB dynamic range and those are not for audio. Instead you link a page to scroll and scroll with "education", but not a single signal-to-noise spec.

If they said "we have three simultaneous ADCs instead of one, and make three different bracketed recordings at 36dB level increments so you always have a security recording..." but they don't (while my 8x8 Rosetta can do that simply by setting each channel to a different calibration level).

Search for "RME ADI-2 Pro FS specs". One click lets you know everything you could want. Like it's THD+N of -112dB, literally 20x lower than SD's well-hidden -86dB THD+N spec, equivalent to 14 bit.

It works because it a portable digital Nagra supporting condenser mics and fits a certain purpose perfectly. And it would be okay for vinyl because vinyl is poor anyway.

 

I digitize and restore the sound on vinyl records for record companies whenever a master tape is lost or unusable. then they use the master I make to press new records or send them to digital platforms.
equipment I use for this purpose:

-Benz Micro ACE SM, Hana SL, EMT TSD 15N, EMT TMD 25N (I've chosen basic cartridges for this purpose since a cartridge is a consumable product with very short lifetime)
-SME V and SME V-12 tonearms both internally wired with Kondo KSL Silver wire and Kondo SL-115 KSL silver headshell wires.
-La Platine Verdier turntable (IMHO Technics 1200 is a nice turntable but unlike common belief their wow&flutter isn't good enough for this kind of work. IME real world measured performance is around %0.1 AES, best ones around %0.04.)
-Kondo Ls-41 silver tonearm cable
-Kondo SFz silver SUT
-Kondo GE-1 Phono
-Kondo Ls-41 silver interconnect
-Kondo ACz silver powercords including turntable motor (the most important powercord)
-RME ADI-2 and Babyface pro cards for AD and DA.
-Macbook pro
-Izotope RX and Ozone (I mostly use spectral De-noise, manual De-click, De-Hum. I always try to make very slight touch but also try to get rid of vinyl effects like groove noise, poor channel separation, IM distortion etc. I have my own working routine)

before digitizing I clean records in ultrasonic cleaner following some anti-static treatment to make sure the record is clean enough to be played.
the most important thing is setting up turntable, tonearm and cartridge perfectly. since I set-up turntables as a profession I start setting up with basic optical tools like protractors, usb microscope and finish it with Analogmagik for required precision.

 

I am continually amazed at how well iZotope RX/Ozone tools sound with the right skills. You'd think that processing with noise reduction tools would damage the sound, but, if one is careful, and you A/B the results, you can hear how little or no damage is done to the sound.

 

Exactly. It makes you wish they had RX back in the 90ès when they no-noised the life out of way too much music! If course, it's as much about the right skills you mentioned and restraint as it is about the software. Just because it's possible to remove all the noise, it doesn't mean that's the right choice.

 

Well, you know much more about this then I do, so I won't argue more, especially since I'm delighted by the mention of 'yellow snow." Makes me think of the Zappa song!

I don't think that SD is making anything up, but I also see your points and again, I'm not qualified to argue. I know that 32 bit float seems to be a somewhat controversial recording feature with some loving it and others deeming it unnecessary or even fake. The thing works for my videos and that's all I need.

Back to needle dropping! For my use, I'll give it a shot as I'm not looking for the end all in quality, but rather a fun way to make mixes.

 

Appreciate you sharing your experience and list the tools you use. One thing I would like to know is how much the service/job would cost. Are you able to give an estimate?

 

People who are still crusading against not using noise reduction haven't used modern software with advancements in the technology, they are using the free junk that comes with Audacity, or just lack the patience to learn.

 

harby, I saw nothing inaccurate in that link. It is correct that there is no 32-bit hardware or software, but they can interpret 32-bit files. It's also correct when it says that the advantage of working at 32-bit float is merely for processing purposes. At 32-bit, the wave does not clip at 0 FS. With that level of dynamic range, you can process to your heart's content at 32-bit float without worrying about clipping. But, of course, in the end, it all has to be brought back to or below 0FS for using in software or hardware that only processes at 24-bit or you will clip.

The fact is, even 24-bit is overkill. 20-bits is also technically overkill, but after that, that's where the marketing comes in. Thing is, no one uses 20-bit in 2021, and many ADCs will not recognize it.

 

One has to roll back a few pages to re-discover the crux of the matter. Click hear to read the manufacturer's claim of "astounding 142dB of dynamic range". https://www.sounddevices.com/product/mixpre-3-ii/ Then see how they link to that 32 bit format explanation as a reason they might make "increased dynamic range" claims.

Then, instead, click on "specs" on their website and attempt to determine factual information or discover any ADC specifications comparable to other hardware.

You can therefore see some attempts elsewhere to determine actual hardware, (on gearspace one of the company reps is there to mitigate optics): Audio interfaces and their AD/DA chips LISTED - Page 13 - Gearspace.com
Blackmagic Forum • View topic - Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

As their analog has apparently degraded the chipset's THD+N by over 20dB, there's no reason to expect the dynamic range holds up either...

Its 3.5mm aux input, with RCA-to-headphone adapter cable, should work just fine for recording from a phono preamp.

 

Ah! I see! And, BTW, no one wants to hear 142 db! That would blow out your eardrums!

 

A couple of notes on what you said, perhaps for a few more shades of insight...

- I agree completely with what you wrote...and also use 32-bit float for all meaningful audio editing work. And, yes, that's so I don't have to worry about exceeding 0 FS in the process (though I run some sanity checks to make sure intermediate process mathematics doesn't choke on floated signals if they exceed 0 FS).

- One thing about the float format is that it keeps the MSB at "1" (though there are sign considerations) and shifts data up or down, via the exponent, to maintain 24 bits of meaningful audio data. An effect of this is that not only do signals not saturate at 0 FS (within some extended limits), steps that reduce gain are less likely to permanently lose signal information at the less significant end of the 24 bit field. If a later step increases the gain, the lower level information should be retained.

- 20-bit audio for some applications could be very useful (I first ran across the idea because the DVD-A standard provides for 20-bit audio). The problem is that computer words are organized along 8-bit chunks, so 16-bit, 24-bit, or 32-bit samples are much more natural. Without some specialized packing, 20-bit audio saves no storage space compared to 24-bit audio. (Going back to DVD-A again, 20-bit audio has no real storage advantages over 24-bit audio on a DVD disk even though it could, theoretically extend maximum playing time.)

 

No, it's actually measured downwards from 0dBFS meaning that their claimed noise floor is -142dB. Of course as harby mentioned, there's no way it's actually achievable. There are a lot of other factors contributing to noise levels.

 

follow

 

I posted the following post in a reply to @ghost rider regarding a needledrop I did. I linked the two posts because my response was more conducive to this thread.

ALL of what you hear is on the vinyl. The record itself is VG-. All I needed to do is give it and the stylus a couple of wipes with an anti-stat brush. Mercury Records made excellent recordings in the 50s and early 60s.

I made no effort to tame any sibilance because I didn't find it distracting in any way. That's the way it is on the recording. I made no attempt to enhance anything except boost the bass by 1 db to compensate for the relative thinness of my AT 150mlx cart. The Master Rebalance module on Ozone 9 Advanced does its magic in a way that does not affect anything else in the music unless you use extreme settings. All I did was clean the noise.

I don't use any noise shaping because I feel it muddies the sound and alters the timbre. That's what I get for being able to (barely) hear up to 16kHz at my age.

One other little thing I did recently that I feel improves my results: I switched my interconnects. I had been using MIT 2 Terminators for years, but I decided to replace them with some red Straightwire I had lying around and it fattened up the sound a bit and even added a bit more detail. Don't ever let anyone convince you that all cables sound the same. They don't. That's because of the impedance and resistance properties between the cables and the hardware, really, but to sum it up, there's still a difference in sound as the result. I always throw away the cheap $2 interconnects that you get with the gear. I never use them.

When I tell you guys that the gentleness and effectiveness of RX's declicker/noise reduction doesn't hurt the sound, I mean it, and @Stefan backs me up on this. You just have to spend a little coin to get it. Thing is, all the goodies are in the advanced and subscription pro versions. Once you get up there, the upgrades are much, much cheaper when they run their sales. Now, all I have to do is find a way to afford the RX9 Advanced. I'm still on RX7 Standard. But, upgrading to Ozone 9 Advanced was a good move for me.

 

Does the The Master Rebalance module clean the noise. Is it on Ozone 8 advanced?

 

Neither Music Rebalance (in RX7+ Standard) or Master Rebalance (in Ozone 9+Advanced) have anything to do with cleaning noise. What they do is isolate certain elements in a recording like vocals, drums, or bass, and either raise or lower just those elements. It's like remixing if you can't actually remix. They are not EQ.

Ozone focuses on mastering concerns. RX has the cleaning tools. For what I do, both are essential.

There is another module in Ozone 9 Advanced called "Low End Focus" that I haven't really found a need for yet. In my experiments with it, a tiny adjustment goes a long way, so you have to be careful with it.

I use the Maximizer (limiter) in Ozone on every project I do to bring the sound to around -14 LUFS levels. It's very transparent!

 

I may start using my Ozone more. I did get my system up at the rental with the exception of the turntables, that will take some more work.

 

Got my turntables up and running. This is my shelf modification and I tested it and it sounds wonderful. With this setup all my expensive "highend" 1 meter cables still worked.

 

I am wondering if somebody can suggest a free Windows program that records at 24/96? I have used Goldwave in the past but can't seem to make it record at 24/96?

I understand Audacity doesn't really record at 24?
Thank you!

 

I thought Audacity worked in the 24bit realm. Did a quick Google search and found: Go to Preferences, the Quality section and set the default sample format to 24-bit. When exporting, choose "other uncompressed files" in the "Format" dropdown menu in the Save dialog box. Click the "Options" button and in the next dialog set the "Header" to the file type you want, and the "Encoding" to 24-bit.

For Goldwave: To select 24 bit quality in GoldWave, choose Options | Control Properties (or press F11), choose the Device tab, then set the Recording quality to "PCM 24 bit".

That should do it for you.

 

If I remember correctly, the issue with Audacity not really recording 24-bit audio (even if it said it did) was resolved awhile ago now.

 

I'm always scared to stack my stuff on shelves that high. All it would take is one weak part of the cabinet, or a rare earth tremor to bring it all crashing down.

 

I built it! 3/4 inch oak plywood the weight of the top shelf is fully supported by the 4 vertical floor to ceiling pieces of plywood plus there is a 2by substructure behind the TV with 2 hidden shelves. I understand and appreciate your concern. It's solid. I had to use a 6ft step latter completely lying on the amps reaching to connect the cables. This sucker sturdy I would have to really try to tip it over. There are also two 7 cf subs on each side holding it down and I put them in after I was climbing all over it connecting cables. This is the only way I could make all this work.. Besides I would only be worried if I had a teenage son, so I'm good.

I have one more move and this rack is probably following me to the grave and then they can bury me in it. It really seems to work in these so called "great room" style houses. The big room really improves things.

Reading your post again the tremor is something I didn't think about but what are you going to do. I may get some straps and strap it to the studs.

 

Thanks for this! Got Goldwave working. The problem I ran into is that you can't adjust the bit rate if you just push the record button. You need to select "new file".