ZEN phono - impressive specs but I wonder how it sounds

So, I've just realised i've been calibrating my Rega arm wrong....doh! I won't go into details as its kind of embarrassing.

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I have recalibrated using a Rega protractor and ok....I might have to go back and reappraise my records- all of them. So this Phono just may be getting an order.

 

Just trying this out now with my go to system checker "The Nightfly", the detail is quite a bit more detailed and the stereo image is nice and wider compared to my previous Project Phono MM, love it! Admittedly I don't have any more expensive Preamps to compare it to but Im delighted with it so far.

 

Excellent, pleased for you mate.

 

Stuck on my 77 copy of "Rumours" after Fagan album, definitely a huge improvement on my old preamp, richer and fuller sound.

 

I'm listening to The Chain right now- spooky.

 

Maybe not for the age group people on this thread! One more thing put on used 7inch I have of Somewhere Down the Crazy River, is quite crackly but definitely a bit less now than was with Project, gain maybe less on the Zen.

 

Very good. Think I'll get one on payday.

 

Any further thoughts after a week of usage?

 

Just that the detail I can hear compared to previous preamp or my built in phono stages is a good deal better, I can hear the decay on vocals and little bits of percussion I hadn't noticed previously. I personally love it. Now it may be a tiny bit brighter than previous but overall a great sounding amp. I love hearing detail and I like a lot of electronic music with sizzling symbols etc, so it suits me, it isn't too much brighter though.

 

Thanks for that. Sounds good.

I've just been informed by the boss that the money I was saving for a Puffin has now been allocated to Xmas.....

I don't think she'll notice £150 going out to Amazon, I'll say its a surprise present for her.

 

Has anyone else here got one?

 

My father has one and he really rates it- getting very tempted myself.

Currently using his old Mobile Fidelity X-LPS V3

 

I've had the iFi Zen phono for my Nagaoka MP-110 cart going on about a week now and had been super disappointed. Vocals sounded clean/crisp, but they dominated the regardless of the record played. Highs were way too bright, mids and low end was flat, lacked any detail.

It didn't occur to me, until today, to play with the gain settings. I've got an MM cart so I assumed I was stuck with the only MM (36db) gain setting on the Zen. Before throwing in the towel and looking for other phono stage options, I finally tried it at the MC (hi) 48db setting and WOW! Everything clicked. I can now hear the bass clearly and not picking up any distortion on the high end.

I don't have a basis to compare to other higher priced options, but I'm perfectly happy with this $150 phono amp.

 

Couldn't you damage your preamp by putting a MM cartridge into a Mc setting?

 

Does anyone know the answer to my question, in general can you overload preamps if you choose a higher output?

 

It's not strictly a MC setting, that's just the way it is labeled since, in general, it is intended for med/high output MC cartridges that need more gain than a typical 5mV MM cart. No damage will be done regardless of the settings, but yes, you can potentially overload the phono preamp with too much gain, that specification is "input overload" and determines how much voltage can be applied to the input before the distortion on the output starts rising significantly. Most designs shoot for at least a 10x margin to account for the hottest cut records (though quite a few do fall short of that nowadays), so if your cartridge is rated 5mV output, then you would like to have a preamp with 50mV (or 20dB) input overload on the MM setting.

 

You will know if the gain is too much if things start sounding "edgy" with traces of distortion at the frequency extremes when you play a record that's cut really loud. Jacking up the gain on an MM cart too high usually does most systems no favors, and will reduce your headroom. Note that some systems are designed to take higher levels of gain from XLR outputs and such.

If you know the actual output (not factory spec, because sometimes cart output can be higher) of your cartridge it is fairly easy to calculate what is going on at various levels of "hot" records.

See this chart I made as one example:



On the Zen Phono here are gain factors for each setting:

36dB = 63
48dB = 251
60dB = 1000
72dB = 3981

If you run the calculations you will see that your headroom drops as you increase gain.

In the real world, you won't find many records cut hotter than +14dB. Not saying they don't exist, but they are not in the average person's collection in any great quantity.

Not also, that just because the phono preamp has a lot of overload margin, it doesn't mean something like an ordinary mass market integrated amp (opposed to a "separates" system) is made to take all that voltage, which is why some manufacturers intentionally put limits on phono preamp output.

 

Thanks, so could dj spinner get real sound quality improvement from boosting the gain?

 

I don't know the specific DJ you refer to, but DJs typically use cartridges that already have high output (a DJ friend uses carts with 8mV+ output) and run turntables through a mixer. The phono stage is built into the mixer and output volume is attenuated via the mixer knobs or sliders. They don't need to jack up gain at the phono stage either.

 

Dj spinner the person who posted above me here

 

He said the MC setting on the Zen using his MM cart was so much better.

 

I suppose it is possible that the MC setting loads the input differently?

Most people, confronted with two otherwise identical signals with the only difference being that one is slightly louder, will pick the louder one as sounding better.

 

Right, and 48dB is too much gain IMHO for most MM carts, in most average systems. It's very easy to be seduced by higher gain like that, but over time it becomes fatiguing to listen to IME.

What that 48dB setting is really meant for on a product like this is to account for cartridges that are HOMC, which have output between 1mV-2mV.

The 36dB might sound off at first to someone accustomed to most newer preamps that start at a 40dB-ish setting. But for most MM carts, a 36dB setting is going to work better and offer more headroom and less distortion than a 48dB setting.

 

I just tried it their on my system

All I can relate is that MM setting on the Zen using my gear sounds great and is a lot better than the built in phono stages on 3 amps I tried it on and way better than my previous preamp.

 

Yep. There is a reason vintage receivers from the era of vinyl almost always used 36db gain for MM phono.