ZEN phono - impressive specs but I wonder how it sounds

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by drandall, Sep 7, 2020.

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  1. Technocentral

    Technocentral Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Listening to my 95ml now on Td 160 through ifi Zen phono, more detail and better tracking than the 95e for sure, similar sound overall of course, it's actually v similar to sound of Ortofon 2m Blue on my Debut Evo, stereo separation not quite as wide but very nice cart, of course needs some burn in time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
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  2. Rob6899

    Rob6899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Millom, UK
    It gets better.

    A lot better.
     
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  3. CourserLL

    CourserLL Active Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Hi mate, wondering how you're getting on with the Zen phono? I just picked one up after a little research. Any more feedback or tips? I'm actually going to be running it with a Nagaoka MP-110 (though I currently have a Rega Carbon at the moment) like someone else in this thread. Messed around with the gain or tried the balanced output?
     
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  4. Rob6899

    Rob6899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Millom, UK
    Oh an opinion, I can give an opinion ha ha!!!

    Disclaimer: By no means an "audiophile" and I consider myself slap bang in the midst of the target group for this bit of kit i.e. low budget (Kinky).

    Its really good. I find myself listening to records I know (2011 Aqualung, 2008 EU Aja, 2020 Wildflowers, Original and modern pressings of Floyd, Waters and The Kinks) and looking up because it sounds so different that what I'm used to.
    My primary listening is through my cheap headphones, as my speakers are too close together for my optimal stereo imaging, hence why I listen to a lot of old mono records.
    My soundstage definitely raised up, I liken this to the balance control on an amp- instead of moving left to right the whole sound image rose up (That sounds like review speak to me, apologies). Surface noise dropped down to make some of my old records more listenable.

    My tonearm has just had a wiring upgrade so its a measured 77pf Right and 76 left capacitance.

    I would say the phono needs a run in, mine still is as far as I'm concerned, it gets better (it wasn't bad anyway) with time.

    System as listed:

    Goldring GR1 TT- with Ultimate Rega Enhancement Kit inc Silent Base

    The Vinyl Source- NEW REGA RB REWIRE KIT +installation service, full Litz wiring | eBay

    ATVM95ML aligned with The Vinyl Source Cartridge Arc Alignment Protractor. For use with Rega Tonearms. | eBay and tracking at 1.75g measured using Digital Cartridge LP Turntable Stylus Tracking Force Gauge Scale 0.01/5g Weight 826964059157 | eBay

    Onkyo A-9110

    Acoustic Energy Aegis Evo 3 Floor standers

    Audio Technica ATH M20X Headphones

    I did turn the gain up to the MC High setting, all it did was make the music louder and increase the Surface noise- so turned it back to MM setting.

    I have a balanced cable (delivered today) and I'm waiting for an Ifi Zen Can being delivered that will form part of a probably ill conceived Class D very cheap system I've dreamed up so will test that then.

    Further disclaimer: not as cloth eared as I make out but comfortable with my own hearing and not inclined to unsubstantiated claims ;)
     
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  5. CourserLL

    CourserLL Active Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Oh I'd say you've probably achieved something enviable with all those turntable upgrades. I imagine it perfroms above and beyond its base form.

    Cool to see you are getting the CAN. Would be interested to hear your thoughts considering that is a route a Zen Phono owner could go down.

    Yeah, I'd say the most immediate thing I noticed was the soundstage and the immediate areas around it. The dimensionality was great expanded, instruments sounded much clearer and controlled. Instead of being a singular noise stream everything suddenly sounded more detailed and spacious, allowing all the elements to shine.

    Will be interesting to hear how it develops.
     
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  6. Rob6899

    Rob6899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Millom, UK
    I plan to use the Can to feed two mono class D amps, as a preamp (balanced to RCA).

    Will let you know how it goes, if it doesn't all blow up lol.
     
  7. Rob6899

    Rob6899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Millom, UK
    Just wanted to say also.

    It makes me want to hear 10s of thousands of pounds/dollars gear now, but I will never own any. I've never wanted to listen to that kind of gear before but this makes easy to understand what improvements can be made with the dollars.

    To be honest I can quite easily hear that kind of kit digital wise if I went to my dad's house, but that's not on the cards. He has spent a month's salary to me on power cables alone.
     
  8. Rob6899

    Rob6899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Millom, UK
    Can has arrived. My Mrs took one look, sniffed and said "another one of those?" while looking at my DAC and Phono.

    Not had much chance to listen to records, but it sounds good Zen-Balanced-Can, so hopes are high.
     
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  9. CourserLL

    CourserLL Active Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Hah, yes its like that. I'm lucky in that my partner could actually hear the difference the Phono made quite easily, and by the end was telling me how the instruments sounded "more seperate" and it was like a concert in front of her.

    Though, that said, I'm sure if I started adding other components and cables it'd incur some questioning. Already fielding some about the as-yet unarrived catridge upgrade.

    The Zen Phono is still sounding great BTW. Listened to some 7" 45s the other day and the detail was excellent.
     
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  10. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    It is a trick, your partner is going to spend 5x more money and insist you also recognize some difference.

    :laugh:
     
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  11. Bloodbuzz459

    Bloodbuzz459 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Took the plunge and got the Zen Phono. Replacing my old Music Fidelity LPS.

    I was a little hesitant because, well, to be perfect honest I have a modest but decent system and while price isn't everything I wasn't sure how a £150 box would fit in.

    But it does, I'm really impressed with the sound albeit it is quite bright and for want of a better term it sounds more "digital" if that makes sense. I do have to have the volume on my amp much lower this caught me out when the neighbour asked me to then it down.

    My main criticism is the on off button seems a bit intermittent. Some times one click turns it on other times you have to hold it in a few seconss and it's the same turning it off. My dad has this problem so it's not isolated to just my unit.
     
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  12. Davey

    Davey NP: Rosali ~ Bite Down (2024)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    That was covered a couple pages back from their FAQ ....

    How can I turn the Zen Phono off?

    The Zen Phono MCU is designed to switch out of the signal path after a few seconds to improve the sound quality. This means when turning the Zen Phono off we need to press the on/off button twice . First time to wake the MCU, then wait a few seconds and press a second time to turn the unit off.
     
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  13. Rob6899

    Rob6899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Millom, UK
    Mine seems a bit intermittent as well, may be my old fat fingers though.

    Also seems to be an auto off, I can't see that mentioned anywhere.
     
  14. DJSpinner

    DJSpinner Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    What gain setting do you have it set for? If you have it at 48dB and it sounds bright, back it down to 36.
     
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  15. Rob6899

    Rob6899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Millom, UK
    I'm just listening to a mono Scott 2 through it, with a mono switch.

    It's impressing me, definitely helping with surface noise.Balanced out to the Zen Can and headphones is good as well, but I'm not keen on headphones so will have to listen more.

    I'm just waiting for my 4.4mm to rca balanced from china to try.
     
  16. Bloodbuzz459

    Bloodbuzz459 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Running a DL-103R I set it to 'Very Low' which seemed right based on the specification but I could be wrong, I'd be lying if I said I was in any way an expert on gain settings etc. so I'm grateful for any advice on this.

    The sound is fantastic and maybe bright isn't the right word but versus my 15 year old and well worn in phono it sounds much more clinical and less warm.
     
  17. DJSpinner

    DJSpinner Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    Ah, I was basing the suggestion on Ortofon cartridge in your profile. Try the #3 (MC Low) gain setting on the back of the Zen for your Denon. That provides a 60dB gain which should be more appropriate for your cart.

    I'd also add that I too experienced a fatiguing brightness the first 10 hours of use with the Zen especially listening to horns or high note organs in jazz music, it was actually uncomfortable. After burn it settled down just nice though...Or my brain settled down...whichever theory you subscribe to.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
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  18. Bloodbuzz459

    Bloodbuzz459 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Thank you for that. I switched it to low and it's certainly a warmer sound. The volume adjustment on my amp is also much more subtle.
     
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  19. Technocentral

    Technocentral Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Got similar one to that, thanks for the tip, man does it make a difference! Thought my styli were clean with dry goats hair stylus brush but saw loads of gunk on them with x60 especially, got vinylclear stylus cleaner and they are sparkling now, would never have thought of looking that close.
     
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  20. Rob6899

    Rob6899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Millom, UK
    Crazy how much crap is left on isn't it?
     
  21. Technocentral

    Technocentral Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Insane compared to 95e and Grado Black I have.
     
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  22. Rob6899

    Rob6899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Millom, UK
    I've been listening for the last few days, its continuing to impress me.

    I'm cabled 4.4mm balanced from Zen Phono to Zen Can, then 4.4mm balanced to 2xRCA cable (Chinese eBay job) to my Onkyo A 9110. My experiment with 4.4mm to RCA into two Class D mono amps didn't work due to quite loud hum- so I will come up with something else I think (4.4 to XLR then a Passive XLR to RCA Switch maybe).

    Surprisingly there's no hum at all when i use the 4.4mm balanced to 2x RCA cable into my Onkyo, nothing at all? And it sounds great both anolog and digital. Obviously the Onkyo inputs are maybe better grounded (or just grounded) compared to my cheapo mono amps.

    Just connecting the two amps to the system, even when not turned on, produced hum.
     
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  23. Smashedpumpkin

    Smashedpumpkin Active Member

    Location:
    London
    Sorry for jumping in late on this but I'm considering this preamp and your point may well be relevant to me. I use an old B&O MMC20EN cartridge with an output of just 2.12mv. The low setting of 36db of gain will only give 133mv output, 48db will give 532mv (really wish they had a setting somewhere between this). I'm using a cheap Behringer preamp with a crap snr and just 35db of gain which really isn't enough to drive my amp that has a 200mv sensitivity. How was your experience with using the 48db setting? Any issues with distortion at all?
     
  24. DJSpinner

    DJSpinner Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    I can't speak specifically to your cartridge, but neither my Nagaoka MP-110 (5mV) and Shure M97xE (4mV) experience any noticeable distortion at the 48db gain setting.

    Depending on which method (the KAB or Harley-TAB) you use to calculate optimal setting, I believe 48db setting on the Zen would probably be ideal for your 2.12 mV cart, with no distortion.

    Rethinking Phono Preamp Gain Settings
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  25. Smashedpumpkin

    Smashedpumpkin Active Member

    Location:
    London
    I'm using the NdB = 20 log V1/V2 equation to calculate the preamp output. A 5mv input to a 48db gain would give an output of 1255mv using this method. Now I know this all depends on the sensitivity of the amp the signal is being fed to, 1v would be fine but 200mv would be overkill surely? 532mv into a 200mv sensitivity would probably be fine I'd expect.

    We seem spoiled for choice in the cheap preamp market. I'm having a hard time deciding between the ifi, Rega MM Mk3 and Project S2/Ultra. All seem fairly similar.
     
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