A comparison between an 9 year old and a new stylus

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Thomas_A, Apr 14, 2018.

  1. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    you win
     
  2. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

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    Uppsala Sweden
    I beg to differ.
     
  3. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

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    Uppsala Sweden
    Seems legit, considering distortion increases by about 3% every 500 hours on 15khz frequencies for SAS type profiles.
     
  4. Helom

    Helom Forum Resident

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    U.S.
    Beg all you want. That's been my experience with two of them.
     
  5. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

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    Uppsala Sweden
    How have you confirmed a change over 50 hours? By ear?
     
  6. Helom

    Helom Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    By ear and my AP test record. 50 hours is just an approximate assessment. That's roughly how long it took for balanced frequencies and best tracking.
     
  7. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

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    Uppsala Sweden
    Got any charts on that?
     
  8. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

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    Brooklyn, NY
    C'mon, fellas...
     
  9. Helom

    Helom Forum Resident

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    U.S.
    No, I don't chart everything I do in this hobby. It's pretty well accepted that most stylus' take between 20 and 50 hours to break in.
     
    Benzion likes this.
  10. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

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    Uppsala Sweden
    Never been proven as far as Im concerned and when asking well known vinyl community figures its not really an accepted fact, so in case we just argue from authority I still disagree.
     
  11. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

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    Brooklyn, NY
    Funny, every cart they sell comes with a recommended "break-in" period. They must all be wrong... :righton:
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
    baconbadge likes this.
  12. Helom

    Helom Forum Resident

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    U.S.
    So even the suspension doesn't break in at all eh?
     
  13. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

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    Uppsala Sweden
    It does, I believe the calculations were done and after 50 hours or so the suspension settles to the point where your SRA is 1 whole degree less.
     
  14. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    There are lots of complications like misinterpretation, mistranslation and company coverage. Nagaoka famously also states their recommended stylus wear out period as 200 hours. This is simply wrong however as the 200 hour mark is actually just the normal point of general distortion allowed for a cartridge to be stated as new. You dont need a new stylus every 200 hours.
     
  15. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    The break-in period for Nagaoka is listed as 30 hours anywhere you bother to look. Here's one example:

    Nagaoka MP-150 phono cartridge

    Edited:

    Their owner's manual does state that after 150-200 hours the stylus "begins to wear" and that "replacing the stylus as often as possible will ensure the best performance consistently", or some such junk. But that's easy to explain - they want to sell you more styli more often. The usual stylus replacement intervals are given in the 500 - 1000 hours range. Some people happily go beyond 1000 hours.

    They're not talking about the break-in period, though. After break-in it's universally accepted that cartridges begin to sound as intended, smoother and closer to their intended characters. Usual break-in times listed, as I have seen, are anywhere from 30 to 100 hours, 100 hours being more of a word-of-mouth figure by actual users based on experience, and 30-50 hours being figures listed by the retailers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  16. baconbadge

    baconbadge Chooglin’

    Location:
    Queens, NY
    Much prefer # 1. It's just more pleasing balanced listen.
     
  17. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    I was not talking about break in there. But as stated company coverage plays a roll here. Reassuring someone that things will sound better after a while can make things seem to start sounding better. Its the power of suggestion and it surely helps in increasing custoner satisfaction. As humans we simply get used to things over time.
    But we also dont really know what is meant by break in here. It could simply be pointing to the cantilever suspension settling, as mentioned above.
     
  18. Helom

    Helom Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    Which makes an audible difference IME, especially with exotic and microline stylus profiles. If you have the ability, try it on your Rega. I find the SAS is very sensitive to slight SRA adjustments, but try it for yourself.

    If the suspension loosens up to the point that it affects SRA, wouldn't it seem logical that it might also affect lateral motion, thus affecting compliance as well?
     
  19. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    I dont disagree with that. But no one ever says, oh yeah watch out for break in, it will throw off your SRA so you better raise your tonearm after 50 hours.
    Break in is believed as a solely positive change, not something you fix.
     
  20. baconbadge

    baconbadge Chooglin’

    Location:
    Queens, NY
    What record/pressing is this from? The Cemetery Gates single, or a full length album? What's the matrix info? Sounds incredible.
     
  21. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Well, I take the effect of break-in the way it is usually described - afterwards, carts sound less edgy, and truer to their intended characters. One instance - there are a lot of threads here dedicated to A-T carts, aspecially the 440 and the 150 lines. They have a reputation for being bright, to some people - unbearably so. Quite a few actual users here have reported that after a proper break-in period, usually 40-100 hours, the brightness was gone and the carts assumed the character they're so famous and popular for. I was in the camp that got cold feet and didn't buy the 440 or 150 based on the brightness reports, but many people braved the rough waters and didn't regret it.
     
  22. Colin M

    Colin M Forum Resident

    Me too! One still works whilst sticky with cola...
     
  23. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

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    Uppsala Sweden
    How do can they tell that the cart changed and not the way they percieve the sound?
     
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  24. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Leon, I think you're going too deep. There's really no need to over-think it.
     
  25. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Im not even sure what to say to that.
     
    Benzion likes this.

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