A question for audiophiles: Who makes the best PAF style humbuckers?

Hi, if anyone knows good tone, it's the good people, and the host, of this forum. I'm doing a lot of studying and research, comparing sound clips of PAF type humbuckers.

I am especially trying to compare Lollars and Throbaks. These are the two humbuckers available in the Les Paul style guitar I am interested in. So this question is for audiophiles, those who prefer good mastering, those who avoid loud, unpleasant and harsh mastering.

I'm look for humbuckers with great tone, that are "well mastered." Who makes the best PAF type humbuckers today?

 

http://www.mojotone.com/guitar-parts/pickups-humbucker/59-clone-PAF-humbucker#.VSmwixPF_Tg

 

Wolfetone Legend "paf"

http://www.wolfetone.com/legends.html#

 

Of course the Gibson PAF is fine. I like the Seymour Duncan types and the Lindy Fralins. You can get the SD types potted or unpotted.
-Bill

 

I think you'd do better on a guitar forum.

 

Check out Slider's pick ups from Sydney. I have a few sets of his single coils for my Strats and I love them. I'm sure his PAF's are great.

http://sliderspickups.com/

 

Lots and lots of replicas out there and lots and lots of variability in some of the original winds and of course Gibson used different AlNiCo alloys at different times during the production run of the originals, so like Steve says there may not really be one single "PAF sound."

But with so many good "replica" and inspire-by new pickups out there I don't think you can go much wrong with any unpotted (to me a big element of what we think of as the PAF sound even if it means you're on the edge or over the edge of squealing if you crank up the gain), plain enamel wire, not over wound (wound to something like 7 or 8 kohm DCR, no more), AlNiCo pickup of your choice from any of the well-known winders. Fralin makes great pickups and I used some of his Tele pickups. Lollar makes great pickups. I wound up just using Duncan Seth Lovers -- relatively inexpensive compared to some of these boutique pickups out there today, and hard to argue with a pickup designed by the guy whose name is on the patent in question on the original PAFs, even if the Seth is said to be more like the original PAF prototype than the production models.

 

Everyone has their opinions on the best PAFs. Check out thegearpage forums for more info. They definitely have more than here. Lollars are a good bet but not the end all be all.

 

I could check out the guitar forums, but that's a little like checking Amazon to see if a remastering is any good. I trust the ears and tastes here.

 

Agreed. Check out http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php. Seriously tons and tons of stuff about all things guitar.

 

I a biased and also partial to PRS 57/08's.

 

There are also the Voodoo 59 as very good PAF replica.

 

I agree with this completely. The Seymour Duncan types come in two standard varieties which are true PAF style pickups (and not the more expensive, aged Antiquities types). The Seth Lover is my favorite and is unpotted, meaning that it can begin to resonate and feedback more easily, but the tone is also more complex, which I like. The other is called the '59 and it is essentially the same pick-up when ordered with the cover but for the magnets and it being potted. It has a bit more clear sound for that but the mids are not as complex. In either case, I like the original gibson style braided, 2 conductor leads. It's just the way it was meant to be!
-Bill

 

I wonder if anyone would be willing to go to YouTube and search for "Lollars vs Throbaks" and watch the video with the man playing the red semi-hollow. The guitarist is comparing each of the pickup sets IN THE SAME GUITAR.

I'd love to know which one you prefer and why.

 

I wouldn't make a decision based upon a YouTube video; crappy sound and too many variables. I would however, take the advice given here by chervokas in an instant based upon his experience and reputation for solid ideas here.

Bottom line though is that no matter what electronics you pack into a guitar, the sound will be mostly a result of your skill. I could "play" the most expensive and sought after Les Paul in the world and it'd sound like hammered crap. I could then hand a total POS knock-off "Les Paul" to Peter Green and pure tonal bliss would ooze from the speaker. I'd say it's 10% in the rig and 90% in the brain and fingers.
-Bill

 

YouTube videos are okay to get a ball park feel but the sound quality isn't always the best. My sense is that you can't go too far wrong, like I said, with a quality winder, AlNiCo magnets, plain enamel wire, unpotted pickups, not wound too hot and really transparent sounding pickup covers. But I like those kind of crisp PAFs, the ones that in the bridge position and the right guitar and strings, and maybe with the guitarist picking down by the bridge, could almost make you think you're even hearing a Tele bridge pickup. And they have a real wide range of sounds you can get out of 'em working the volume and tone knobs (they also have a really complex distorted tone).

A huge part of the whole equation is a) what kind of sound are you looking for? Not all PAFs sounded the same to begin with and there's a really wide variety of PAF-type replicas out there and b) what's the best match for your guitar and strings? In my experience a lot of times when people say they're looking for PAF pickup they're looking for much warmer and hotter pickups than I tend to associated with the oldest PAFs.

Do you have no friends or others with guitars with the pickups you're interested in to check them out? That's really the best way to get a feel not only for the sound of the pickups but their responsiveness to differences in playing attack and tone and volume knob changes.

I'd also not worry about it so much -- swapping pickups is kind of like swapping interconnects in hifi, whatever you have installed in the initial build certainly doesn't have to be what you wind up with.

But it's such a personal decision based on your preference for guitar, amp, strings (I like warm, pure nickel strings that don't drive the pickups that hard with guitars, pickups and amps and low cap cable that tend to be brighter, and I don't like to use lots of gain or lots of cascading preamp distortion, and I like to work the guitar volume and tone knobs; players who like bright strings and high gain cascading preamp distortion would probably have very different preferences than me), and the kind of responsive feel, there's only so much you can take from online demos, advice, specs, whatever. In the end you gotta put the pickups in the guitar and play 'em.

 

You're wrong. The wealth and quality of info there is much better than here. Wrong forum for the kind of info you're looking for.

 

Caveat emptor. In my direct 40+ year experience, just because a particular maker does a good job with single coils does not mean that they can do stellar PAF style humbuckers. Fralin is just one example. I love his Fender style single coils but don't care for his humbuckers.

 

Gibson still makes great humbuckers, custom bucker, burstbucker, and 57 classics. Seymour Duncan Antiquities and Seth Lovers are great, and Dimarzio 36th anniversary have gotten some good press. Stuff from smaller winders (lollar, throwback, fralin, bare knuckle, etc...) gets good reviews, but it's all up to personal preference. I think you can't go wrong with Gibson or Duncan..

 

Toying with the height can make a world of difference too. A great pickup can sound harsh or muddy if set too high.

 

Absolutely no two Gibson made PAFs made before they got more modern winding equipment sound quite alike, and further, the sound of them changed over time on a continuing basis. I'm sure that Al DiMeola's "burst" sounds different today than it did in 1981 and sounded different then than when it was new. So it comes down to what you like. If you buy a pickup from most major manufacturers now it will at least be very consistent with what the others of the same model and approximate date of manufacture are like since they have much much better quality control as far as consistency. The magnet materials, the wire, the bobbins are much more closely specified. Most of "the biggies" have real engineering resources and have learned to characterize the coils with specified fixtures, measuring a lot of parameters like inductance over a frequency sweep, self-resonant frequency, etc., before they put the magnets in when possible. They are not talking too much about it. All they talk about is DC resistance, which isn't much to go on except to compare two otherwise identical designs, and if you are using good (consistent gauge) wire that's 100 percent a function of total copper length.

Back in the sixties and seventies every custom and pro guitar place was potting pickups and most everyone had it done. Now people WANT the unpotted ones? To me that's just undesirable noise and squeal but to each his own. I guess I have become the old curmudgeon wanting the kids do get off the lawn now.......

 

The really good players are the ones that can take a POS guitar and a POS amp and make it sound pretty good. The beginner and once in a while plunker need all the help they can get.

Playing ease is mostly an issue of setup. But having a guitar that sounds good makes it more attractive to stay at it. I like tinkering with guitars and guitar amps because it's fun. I'll never be any good as a player but if have someone who really can play pick up a guitar I've built or repaired or just gotten to play and play the hell out of it and tell me it's great, I feel like I've accomplished something.

 

sign up at www.thegearpage.net lots of info there.

 

This question is a can of worms There are so many different "takes" on the PAF, everyone has their own idea of what the DC Resistance should be, magnet type, potted vs. unpotted, covered vs. uncovered and so on and so on..... With that said, here are the ones I had in my own guitars:

Timbucker: Anyone who has perused the gear forums knows this one! Insanely long lead time and no longer made. I had a set of these and they sounded incredible, open sounding and an almost Telecaster like "sting." However, they were unpotted and squealed like a stuck pig even under low gain so I sold them for a small fortune.

Wolfetone Marshallhead: Wolf is a great guy, but I hated these in my Les Paul Historic. Too hot and muddy sounding, especially the neck pickup. I yanked them out after one week. Also unpotted and again I had issues with microphonics.

Motor City 2nd degree Blackbelt and Detroiter set: Again, despite the internet buzz over Motor City pickups, I could not stand these either. They (blackbelts) sounded fizzy and thin. The first gig I played with these, my bass player (unsolicited) leaned over and said "your guitar does not sound right tonight." The Detroiter set was a little better but still not my cup of tea.

Voodoo 59: I had these in my Gibson R9 historic, awesome. These I would highly recommend. If I recall the bridge was 8.3 and the neck 7.8. They were "lightly" potted (i.e. just potted between the pickup and cover) no issues with microphonics.

Gibson 57 classics: Not the most authentic sounding PAF replica but a great sound nonetheless. They sound great under high gain and the A2 magnet gives these a nice creamy tone. If authentic PAF tone is not required, I would recommend these too

Seymour Duncan 59: Like the Gibby classics, these are not (IMO) the most authentic sounding PAF, but if you are on a budget these could fit the bill quite nicely. The neck in particular is a classic, often paired with higher output pickups in the bridge (e.g. Duncan JB, Distortion etc.)