Advice on Tube Amps

Hello all! I'm doing some research and trying to find info on lower powered tube amps and how well they would drive my speakers. I currently have Tekton M-Lore's that are a 95db sensitivity and I wondered if I would be left wanting for more power if I had something like a Wright Lolita or a Decware Zen Triode at 7 and 6 wpc respectively.

Would I be better off with something like a Line Magnetic 211? I know these amps are different sounding, and it would be ideal to demo them all in my own system, but I don't really see that as being really easy to do. There is a Line Magnetic dealer a couple of hours away, so that will happen in the next week or so. But until then, are there any ideas, suggestions or advice?

 

It depends upon how loud you listen and how the amp interacts with your speaker. My experience tells me that a 5w amp is OK for jazz and even rock if you don't need to crank it up and if your room is of average size, as yours is. If you want more grip and the ability to get dynamics at volume where you never feel like you need more power, I think 10w would probably get you there as a bare minimum. Most amps that stay in my systems are going to be 12w and up, with anything less being for personal audio, such as for a desktop system. Getting more power, like 20w to 50w will be something that will cover all bases. I like push-pull designs because of this. SET is nice for personal systems but never has enough steam for a full room and a small group of people.
-Bill

 

Great advice! Thank you. The room is smaller but my worry is being able to push the volume without any break up of the sound.

 

My AN E is 96dB sensitive and I'd have no problem playing Slipknot at high levels. I would take much better sound quality over something that sounds worse but can play a but louder at the extreme end.

My review is not out yet but if you look a few threads down here you might want to consider the KingKo KA 101 12 watts push pull. I like it more than the LM 211 and the 101 us $825 and had a superb headohone output...plus auto bias plus cheaper tubes than el34 or 88.

The downside is that it is online only which is why the price is low. A second hand 211 is pretty great too though. The price is about half. A really good SET temds to cost more to make properly.

 

So you would say a little more head room would be better?

 

I use a Leak Stereo 20.
This outputs 12 watts per channel.
My speakers are 93 DB/1watt at 15 ohm

Lots of power! Infact you would be forgiven for thinking that there was a lot more power on tap.
Lowest i have driven was 85 DB/Watt 4 ohm
I think a lot this power/speaker
Matching is down to quality
Transformers on the output side.

 

Audio Note recommends 7 watts on their 94dB models and probably 3watts on their 97dB models. But the AN E is harder to drive than the Tekton Enzo because the E's minimum impedance is 3.6ohm min (nominal 6ohm). The Tekton Enzo is 8 ohms and apparently sticks around 8ohm throughout. I can't speak for the M Lore because I have not seen the measurements.

The Kinko I reviewer is 12 watts and plays louder than I would ever care to listen. In fact my other EL84 based amplifier is the Audio Note OTO which is rated as 10 watts but in truth it measures as just 4.2 watts per channel without distortion. 10 watts with distortion. And I was using the OTO with my old Audio Note J/Spe speakers and that set-up will blow you into next week with excellent bass and volume - and the J/Spe is 92.5dB sensitive in a corner or 89.5dB not in a corner.

What I am saying I guess is this - since your speakers are easier to drive you should have no issues - BUT, it doesn't just come down to numbers on a page. Another review outfit reviewed a 700 watt amplifier and then a 7 watt amplifier from Audio Note and found the latter to have much better bass! So while one amp is selling numbers - the quality of the parts matter.

I remember buying a Sugden A48B (65 watt) over a 150 watt Musical Fidelity because the Sugden just sounded far weightier with real ambiance (it was often compared to tube amps sounding more tubey than some tubes!). The MF probably plays louder but it sounded think and yes airier but somehow fake in comparison.

Ideally you could try a low watt amplifier before you buy or have a good return policy. I know the idea that more watts is "safer" in the sense that it will definitely drive the Tektons - but I'd hate to buy a lesser sounding amplifier just because it has more power over a lower powered possibly better sounding amp that could also be enough power.

 

I recall a 100 watt amp clipping at 17 watts and a 17 watt tube amp thst put out nearly 30 watts with distortion .
So you ask , is the question was the 17 watt really a 30 watter and was the 100 watter actually a 17 watter .
In my opinion sometimes you just have connect the speakers in question
And try them,
I have yet to find a speaker that my Leak will not drive!

 

As fantastic a guy as our local LM is, there's a used 211 on Audiogon right now for a song, dealer display model.

 

A strong recommendation here for a Raven Audio Nighthawk MK II or Blackhawk Limited Edition. Either should have no trouble driving 95db speakers to nice volume levels. The vocals are just fantastic and the bass power and impact are impressive. I believe Destination Hi Fi in LA has them, or Dave with Raven will take care of you.

 

I like headroom, and enough of it to never be concerned.

 

If the loudspeaker sensitivity is 93 dB/ watt you have much headroom.
93 dB is very very loud per Watt, average listening is done at 70 to 80 dB and that requires almost no power.
Disco/headbanging is no music, that is for damaging hearing.

 

Don't rule out kits - as they can be a total blast (we'll hopefully not explode/shock) to build. Lots of wonderful kits out there and easy and rewarding to put together.

 

I saw that. It looks like a deal.

 

They look fun, but my skill with a soldering iron leaves much to be desired.

 

Started making interconnects
And then passive pre,s
And more and more projects till now I can do it with my eyes shut.
DIY will lead to Ultimate in
Sound quality .

 

Only one way to learn.

 

And you can always practice soldering on a cheap 5-10$ electronics kit. Its not for everybody - but think you could be your own 'tech' and fix it in the future.

ex:

Amazon.com: Elenco Practical Soldering Project Kit: Toys & Games

Only drawback would be resale if you tend to sell and buy audio equipment. I would think your market for a built kit would be other kit builders - which limits your market - you would lose out on others too scared to take on the risk. It is totally worth it for me - I'd like to build a Allens Amp guitar amp next.

 

I agree, though I admit I never have tried a low-wattage tube amp. I love my Quicksilver 88's.

 

Just get some scrap boards and surplus or junk parts and solder them in for practice. Any old line ham operator will give you a bunch for the asking.
If you want to learn surface mount, raid the local recycling place and most will give you a few if you promise to bring them back when done.

 

I really don't understand how to compare a tube amp to a solid state amp. When looking for an integrated amp, I looked for something that would drive my bookshelf speakers, so I got a Marantz that is I think 85WPC; I didn't even look at small tube amps, because I saw they were like 10WPC or something really low like that...I have no idea if tube amps with that little WPC can even drive my speakers. Can someone educate me on the difference please? Thanks.

 

It's a bit hard to understand because how watts are measured is a bit all over the place. 85WPC in an amp from the 70's is much different from 85WPC in a modern amp.

As for tubes, I often hear that they are equal twice the power of SS. So if you were replacing a 85WPC ss amp with tubes, 40WPC would be about equal power. Nothing is absolute but generally speaking, I've found this to be about right. Itis really all about the speakers and what they need to blossom.

I look at it like horsepower in an engine. 10HP in a tractor is very powerful, it can run heavy equipment and work hundreds of acres with ease. 10HP in a corvette isn't capable of safely driving to the grocery store without getting run over by a Prius. I have a 25wpc Fisher tube amp and it will drive Cornwalls like I'm at a Who concert, if I hook that up to my paradigms, it's like i'm in the waiting room of a dentist's office.

 

Thanks Dennis appreciate the insight!

 

Dennis is pretty much on the money from my experience. I just recently purchased the Line Magnetic 211 and in linear mode, which I believe is 22 watts, it drives my speakers about the same as the 45 watt SS amp I previously had hooked up.

 

Tubes are very addictive. It's hard to go back once you get a taste for it. Kind of better to stay away from it so you don't know what your missing.