Are song lyrics poetry?...

Are song lyrics poetry?...

 

hell yea! and more too... since the words have this powerful misic to accompany.

 

They can be, just ask Yeats or Rückert.

 

No, they're song lyrics.

 

Depends. Not in the "worthy of 20 pages of analysis sense," but is there something poetic to the lyrics of, say, "Caroline No?" I think so, because I can read it on a page and it's still poignant. I use that as an example because I'm almost positive I read the lyrics to that song before I ever heard it, and I thought, "ooh, I want to know what that sounds like," because the lyrics alone were moving.

 

Strictly speaking, I'd say no. The advantage of using music to enhance the impact of a song's words means that the words don't have to carry the burden of meaning. Thus, we can have great song lyrics (Motown, much Lennon-McCartney, many blues songs) that sound silly or stupid as poems.

There are, of course, exceptions, especially among songs that began life as poems (Leonard Cohen's earliest work springs to mind).

Robin L: did you know that Yeats was tone deaf? I'm always amazed that he couldn't sing a note, given how many of his early poems are in song / ballad form.

 

The answer in my opinion, is only a very small selection of them. In all of popular song, I would say it's a fair estimation—in my opinion—that less than 1% stand up as poetry in the written and spoken form. [Note that almost by definition, poetry should stand up in the spoken context just as much as written.]

Because such a small amount of pop lyrics have transcended their roots in popular music to be considered poetry, I voted no. I should add that I do not think it is the job of song lyrics to be poetry. And it is very often the case that even greatest song lyrics, would still not be poetry.

 

Ha! We said almost exactly the same thing at almost exactly the same time.

 

Generally no. But, I think the Doors songs written by Jim Morrison do quality as poetry.

 

Some lyriks stand on their own as poetry.

 

…

 

Some are poetry while some are not. That was not a choice in the poll.

Nowadays, the only way to make ANY money with poetry is by writing lyrics or rapping. That's sad! Most literary agents will not go anywhere near a new book of poetry no matter what the quality. Poets nowadays who don't write a lyric or rap starve.

 

Nope, though it appears that you know that Joyce was a first-rate tenor.

Was thinking of Joni Mitchell's Slouching Towards Bethlehem.

 

Didn't Robby write "Light My Fire"?

Most published poets I know teach, usually creative writing, in order to make a living. One of the conditions that really limits the audience (and, hence, the publishing chances) for books of poetry is that it's written by academics for academics.

I also think that most people whose skills would make them good poets now opt, instead, to rap or write songs.

 

Yes - but it's all rather lousy.

 

That's the marvel of it, really; so many of Yeats's poems do lend themselves to song. The late 90s Now and In Time to Be CD has Van Morrison, Karl Wallinger, Shane MacGowan, etc. singing Yeats's poetry: some really nice stuff.

 

Sure! Something doesn't have to be great to be considered poetry.

Some lyrics are good, some bad.

Some poetry is good , some bad.

It's the usual subjective thing. Who am I or you to say yes or no. It comes down to I know what I like which may be or may not be the same as you.

 

It's credited to "The Doors." I assumed Jim wrote the words and Robby the melody, but I could be mistaken. In any event, there are other equally inane lyrics that Jim is responsible for.

You're lost little girl
You're lost little girl
You're lost
Tell me who
Are you?

I think that you know what to do
Impossible? Yes, but it's true
I think that you know what to do, yeah
I'm sure that you know what to do.

Fairly typical Strange Days lyric there. Does that work in the context of the song? For sure. And Jim sings it well. But I can't say that I would sit down and study it on its own.

Every now and then, Jim did write a pretty good lyric. "L.A. Woman" is my favorite. But I don't know that any of them are poetry; I think they're just above-average rock lyrics that have more inventive imagery.

P.S.—Before anyone calls me out for praising "Caroline No" and picking on Jim: since I posted for the first time in this thread, I thought about it a little more and decided that no, most song lyrics are not poetry, but some (like "Caroline No") can be affecting in the way that very simple poems are. I would not compare "Caroline No" (or "L.A. Woman") to "The Waste Land," and neither should you.

 

I seem to remember, from either the Oliver Stone movie or the Danny Sugerman book, that Robby wrote the lyrics for "Light My Fire", but it's been many moons since I was a hardcore Doors fan. Of course, I agree completely that Jim was responsible for a lot of inane (or simply bad) lyrics. "Riders on the Storm" always bothered me, since I like the sound of it so much, but the "Dog without a bone / An actor out on loan" has to be one of the worst lyrics I've ever heard.

 

Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.

Yep—my wife's got a copy, loves Shane MacGowan's take on An Irish Airman Forsees His Death.

I'd say the Incredible String Band's Maya qualifies:

The dust of the rivers does murmur and weep
Hard and sharp laughter that cuts to the bone
Ah, but ever face within your face does show
Going gladly now to give himself his own . . .​

Ferron's altogether different Maya as well . . .

Last night I dreamed Joni Mitchell cut her hair and changed her name to Gaia. And she spoke to me in a confident air and said..."You better push the edge of Maya." Well, it's either push the edge or fall off the ledge, that's how it feels this morning I've got my rouge-pink sky, my purple mountain nearby and it seems like a very good day to be born in. . . ​

 

No, song lyrics are not poetry, song lyrics are song lyrics. They may at times be quite "poetic" but they're song lyrics.

Poems aren't song lyrics either - they're poems - even though than can at times be quite lyrical.

 

Howzabout Brian Wilson's Smile?

 

My old COD defines poetry as "elevated expression or elevated thought or feeling in metrical or rhythmical form."

By simple use of meter, most song lyrics could would fit the latter part of this definition. But obviously trying to establish criteria for the former part is a task far beyond the scope of the original question.

For what it's worth, written poetry has been set to music throughout the history of Western music. Consider John Dowland's setting of the anonymously written "Fine Knacks for Ladies" and the Fugs' version of William Blake's "How sweet I roamed from field to field."

On the other hand, the Library of America's "Twentieth Century Poetry Vol. 2" contains lyrics by Bessie Smith, Oscar Hammerstein II, Ira Gershwin, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Thomas A. Dorsey, Johnny Mercer, Bukka White, Robert Johnson, Woody Guthrie, Lightnin' Hopkins, and others. One may not agree with some of these inclusions, but nevertheless the lyrics were considered capable of standing on their own.

So yes, song lyrics can be poetry, song lyrics can be good or bad poetry, and poetry can be good or bad. And both song lyrics and poetry can both be absolute doggerel.

 

Yes, practically every song written by Bill Nelson on Be Bop Deluxe's Sunburst Finish album, but particularly the song "Ships In The Night":

"Like a square peg in a round hole
Like a harp without it's strings
Like a sailor who sails no oceans
Like a bird that has no wings
Without love, I am a desert,
Without love, My light is dim
Without love, I have no treasures
Without love, I cannot win
(without love) . . . We are like ships in the night
(without love) . . . Selling our souls down the river
Sailing away and forever our pleasure is blue
Like a dream that has no dreamer,
Like a cloud without a sky
Like a truth with no believer,
Like a mother without a child
Without love, I am a desert,
Without love, My light is dim
Without love, I have no treasures
Without love, My chance is slim
(without love) . . . We are like ships in the night
(without love) . . . Selling our souls down the river
Sailing away and forever our pleasure is blue "

Others here:
http://lyrics.wikia.com/Be_Bop_Deluxe:Sunburst_Finish_(1976)

 

That's right. Posed the way the poll poses it, the question is meaningless.

L.