Audio Desk vs Klaudio - ultrasonic record cleaners

I wouldn't expect an ultrasonic cleaner to be as good on oils as it would on dirt/dust deposits but then I have a very difficult time getting fingerprints and the like up from a record with repeated washings and various surfactants using either my Okki Nokki or the VPI I had before it—and neither of them get all the crud up no matter what and leave plenty of static behind.

 

I haven't been more than three, but I'll try some longer cycles.

The machine is really convenient, thus not wanting to fool with my NG any more.

Now I just need to figure out how to move it from my tiny listening space and out into the wife's space (the rest of the house!)

 

Does yours make a "whistling noise" while cleaning. Mine didn't at first, but it comes and goes. I have also had to bump every lp to get it spinning. I was told this happens occasionally, but it's been every record without exception on mine. I've also noticed more bubbles than at first. I'm thinking the fluid is due. Kinda hard to tell as the bubbles make the fluid look more murky and I though that was changing time. I've probably cleaned 50 or 60 so far, but it may be more. I'm gonna try to pick up a clicker just out of curiosity.

 

When you insert an LP into the AD have the LP resting against the right hand edge of the opening (where the blades meet the side of the machine, I also rotate the LP anti-clockwise to raise the lips of the blades), from that start position my AD automatically rotates the LP every time. A whistling/whining noise is normal.

 

Well, I guess it's time I contributed to this thread. Under the category of "best wife ever", Kim surpassed me in early April with a KLAuudio Ultrasonic Cleaner! We had gone to RMAF last October with my prime motivation being to compare the Klaudo with the Audiodesk. This was hard to do because they were both set up in the main hallways and didn't have any playback setup. I didn't bring any of my own LPs because we flew in so basically I only got to "see" them in operation.

Based on that the Klaudio was clearly (to me) the sturdier built unit, and a tad quieter, again hard to tell. I liked the idea that it had adjustable times for cleaning and drying and that you could dry only. I like that there were no ongoing cost, no fluids or filters to buy, the Klaudio can be run with only distiller water or, they say, even tap water. I like that the blow dryer has no parts that touch the record during the drying cycle. All this combined with the negative reports on the Audiodesk in the other threads lead me to pick the Klaudio.

I got a $500 show discount coupon that had to be used by the following Monday and Kim and I discussed the purchase over the rest of the weekend. That Monday I set up an account on their web site and tried to purchase the unit. It came up as Back Ordered and would not let me use the coupon with a back order. I emailed the company and explained the situation and he gave me another code and I tried again, unsuccessfully, to order. I took that as a sign and gave up. I'd have to be content with my Spin Clean and EV-1, they've served me well and in combination done a fantastic job with over 1000 LPs so far.

Then, as I said, in early April UPS showed up with a huge, heavy box. Kim had contacted Klaudio and explained the situation and managed to get a 10% discount. I was in business.

It's taken me this long to post because shortly after I got it I had my P5 out of service for a bout a month and I didn't want to post without some extensive use out of it. Well now I've cleaned well over 100 LPs and a good cross section from new to used to LPs I've previously cleaned.

This thing is built like a tank. Wide and low and industrial looking, heavy. It's a bit tedious to fill as you have to pour 2 liters into a small silicone funnel, provided. You drain the tank with a long hose by opening and closing a cock valve in the back. There is a cap to open and clean the tank. I can't get my hands all the way inside so I use a cotton bar-b-que brush. There is some black residue that comes out but I haven't cleaned any truly dirty records. The tank is stainless steel and the water can be left in so it's ready to go.

This thing is so easy, just drop the record in and walk away, and in less that 10 minutes, depending on the times you select, you're done.

First let me say this thing does NOT work miracles. Damaged records are damaged records but it will remove all doubt that any noise is due to cleaning. What it does do is get you that last 5-10% and a huge upgrade in convienence. As Bill said with the Audiodesk I seem to hear more super fine detail, almost a deeper soundstage.

I haven't had any problems with water spots or drops. I had some hair balls on some of my early attempts but haven't lately as I check for stray hairs now (cats). I cleaned a bunch of LPs for member JoeLee and he seemed pretty impressed.

The major complaint from Fremer was that there is no filter for the water, that the dirty water goes back in the cleaning cycle. This is true, there is a window where you can see the water in the reservoir and there is detritus in it. But not all the water goes back into the cleaning tank. Enough water for the cleaning cycle is siphoned off and I assume the detritus stays in the reservoir as settlement. All is know is that the records come out beautiful. They say you can leave the water in for a month depending on the amount of records you clean. I've been going at least a month with no ill effects.

If cost is any factor to you I would have to say that the Spin Clean EV-1 combo will serve you well for years. But if you've tried everything and still aren't satisfied or you hate cleaning records and just want to get on with playing records then this is probably your next step. With all my records cleaned once it's now nice to clean new and newly acquired records as the come in and not wait till I have a batch for the Spin Clean.

 

As the additive on the ADS is supposedly to "enhance the ultrasonic cleaning" I am guessing that you don't really HAVE to use it, and I've read results online of folks skipping it with good results. Haven't tried is without as I haven't emptied the tank yet.

 

I've had my AD 18 months now and have cleaned over 5000 records with it. After 30+ years of vinyl collecting I am finally on top of my backlog of uncleaned used vinyl. So I'd say I've gotten my 4000 investment back easily.

To keep the water dropplets to a minimum you gotta fill the tank just to point where the light sensor turns green. You will need to keep a bottle of water close by to retop every 15-20 records. I am careful to change out the water every 100 cleans and when I do that I add a bottle of the AD solution. In between those cleans I don't add any of the solution.

You can extend the life of the rollers if you pull em and clean em with a gentle scrub in distilled water when you do the 100 clean fluid replacement. With this, the rollers stay clean and don't start shedding fibers until somewhere around 800-900 cleanings. You will know its happening when your stylus starts getting gunked with the white fibers.

The water dropplets is the biggest challenge with the AD, particularly when you do batches of records in a session (one off cleanings usually result in a dry record). I messed with the blades and bread bag ties, but what I have settled on is a microfiber cloth to wipe off a few stray drops and a little bamboo dish rack to let the particularly wet records dry.

I can't say enough as to how well the machine works generally and it is deceptively robust as my experience shows (there was a stretch when I was cleaning 50 or so records a day for several weeks straight-no mechanical problems).

I have a Lori-Craft for the really gunky records (but I don't buy many of those) and it is handy for the occassional stubborn fingerprints that the AD won't get, but really I should sell the Lori (its damn good looking though).

So there you have it. Best 4000 spent in this hobby, ever. Otto

 

What was that problem? There was a guy who complained that the records were rubbing on the sides of the slot. I've cleaned over 140 LPs and did not once have that problem. If you put a warped record in the ADS the LP may flop around a bit as it goes around but even then I saw no time in which any LP caught the edge of the slot. I've read nowhere of anyone else reporting that problem.

In terms of cleaning effectiveness and someone above saying it did not get EVERYTHING, there is a limit to what any piece of machinery will do! The poster alluded to having to use a toothpick to dislodge something in the past? All I can say is if a piece of detritus is stuck in a groove so bad that you have to use a toothpick to get it out then you have no right to expect any machine to get that out and to still have the sensitivity to not damage vinyl. YMMV.

In terms of residual water drops, my experience has been that with the (very) odd exception I only get leftover moisture or drops when I leave the LP in the machine long after it has shut off. In those instances I simply take the LP out and wipe it with a soft dry facecloth (of the sort you use in a shower) parallel with the grooves a few times and it appears to dry completely, no big deal.

In terms of the cleaning fluid, I think this is the one area in which I would want to have some sort of a basis for comparison because there is no question it will add cost to an already expensive acquisition. Certainly you could take a record and clean it without using the additive cleaning fluid then listen to it, then add the fluid and clean it again. I would think you'd want to do this many times with many LPs to get a decent sample size. It'd also be helpful to get a comparison of cleaning an LP on the ADS first and the Klaudio second (or the reverse) but the chances of having that opportunity are probably close to nil. Relying simply on some sort of critical thinking, it makes sense to me that an additive (acting like a detergent, yes?) could help to loosen any crud in the grooves. I don't see it as hugely different than adding detergent to a clothes washing machine. Doing so will certainly result in cleaner clothes than simply washing without detergent.

 

I hope the technology of these ultrasonic RCM's finds it way towards a lower pricepoint over time. I'd love to have one, but I can't justify nor afford them. My NG 2.5Fi will have to do.

 

I may run a record or two without the solution when I empty the tank, just out of curiosity. Can't hurt anything.

 

I've owned the AudioDesk and my close friend owns a KL. Based on my experience using both machines vinyl does come out sounding quieter and superior sonically if it is pre-cleaned with an enzyme cleaner like AIVS #15 followed by high purity water all on a vacuum machine (and then put in the ultrasonic machine). This applies even to new vinyl/reissues. The better your system (and the recording/mastering) the more pronounced this sound quality difference is.

I would not be too surprised if VPI comes out with one in the future, Harry Weisfeld hinted at such on Audio Asylum.

 

Why bother with the AD then. Just stick with the fluids and vacuum?

 

Hey, don't come around here making sense!

 

I had a lot of issues with water drops until I replaced my barrels. It was time to replace them as I had cleaned over 1000 LPs with the set that came with the machine. Since replacing the barrels I have cleaned about 15 records of various thicknesses with no problems. I have no idea why replacing the barrels helped. Just reporting my results.

 

The Absolute Sound published a review of the Klaudio ultrasonic record cleaning machine, although the review does not compare the Klaudio unit to other ultrasonic record cleaning machines.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/klaudio-kd-cln-lp200-ultrasonic-vinyl-record-cleaner/

The reviewer mentioned that after doing 21 continuous cycles, the water in the unit increased from 72 degrees (room temperature) to 100 degrees. That caused records to flex while being cleaned.

I have seen that happen with my Klaudio unit after running it continuously on LP after LP for well over 90 minutes. I did not realize it was because the water heated up inside the unit. I thought my last few LPs were warped: they were flexing a lot while spinning in the machine. I was puzzled when I later put those LPs on my turntable, and they laid perfectly flat.

 

Drool. If the price of these were $2,500, I'd be all over it. At $4K, it's just a bit unreasonable. I want one, but I'm content with my regular cleaner given the price difference (unless Santa wants to bring me one).

 

Hi Turnaround. Getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on the KLAudio, despite the hefty price tag which makes my stomach hurt when I think about it.

I only know one person who has both the KLAudio and the AudioDesk and he seems to prefer the KLAudio for a lot of other reason (build quality and ability to use water rather than proprietary chemicals and pads --- also big reasons I'd go with the KLAudio). He seems to think that the quality of the cleaning is about the same, though obviously this is really hard to test. I'll let him chime in with his feelings if they've changed.

What are thoughts on the KLAudio after living with it a few months? Did you ever figure out the water temperature thing?

 

If you're seriously considering the KLA think about attending a show, they were offering $500 off at the RMAF in 2013.

 

If you have to give any thought to the price, my advice would be to wait a few years, when ultrasonic record cleaning machines (RCM) will hopefully be much cheaper and improved. $4,000 goes a long way towards upgrading components for better stereo.

Unless you have so many dirty used LPs that the job of cleaning them is really keeping you from enjoying your LPs. That's the problem I had: I weighed how much time I was losing to cleaning LPs versus the cost of buying an ultrasonic RCM.

I enjoy my ultrasonic cleaner for the convenience, but it doesn't get rid of gunk on an LP. You'll still need a traditional vacuum RCM to try to clean up some dirty LPs. I do not have a fix to the water temperature issue, but these days I don't run the ultrasonic cleaner too much in a single cleaning session.

 

What sold me, was a group of us local audiphiles decided to conduct a cleaning test first using the 3 step hand-scrub vacuum clean using VPI Typhoon. We then Loricraft thread-cleaned & demagnetized and sat down to listen to one reference cut. Finally, we cleaned it with KLAudio ultrasonic cleaner and listen to the same cut again. Everyone in the room was shocked the differences in sound that KL was still able to extract even after two stage cleaning.

Here's mine, in action.

 

I finally found a nearly new Audio Desk unit for under 3k and took the plunge—can't wait to finally have truly clean albums without having to slave over the vacuum RCM for hours at a time. I'll be hanging onto the Okki Nokki for the occasional dingy swap meet record that needs a one pass pre-clean but those are rare enough I imagine I won't be using it much. Should have AD sometime next week. Now to resist buying records this weekend so I don't grow the stack of 70 or so I hadn't managed to get on the Okki Nokki.

 

If you have any questions about either machine the KL Audio or the Audio Desk go to Face Book and ask the Record Genie. He has cleaned thousands of albums w/both machines. He can tell you the advantages of both.

 

So next time a good test would be to clean with 2-stage KL first and then listen to one reference cut. Then 3 step hand-scrub with VPI Typhoon & Loricraft and you'll probably be shocked at how much more the 3 step hand-scrub VPI Typhoon followed by Loricraft can extract even after the KL.

 

I agree, and we did conduct the reversal cleaning steps to see if KL can save us from the more time consuming, labor intensive 3 step cleaning or thread cleaning. Our result was, if you have a relatively clean record, or new record, there is little or no improvement in sound quality. But if you have a fairly scroungy or oily record, 3 step cleaning is definitely required.

Also, our test shows great improvement on scroungy used records when we use KL first, 3 step cleaning, scrubbing second, then revisit KL again as final step.

 

Have any of you considered an ultrasonic cleaning machine from this guy? http://www.ultrasonicrecords.com/

Much less expensive and cleans 8 LPs at a time. Plus, it has a filter for the cleaning water. I'm seriously tempted ...