Audio Equipment Burn-In - is it BS or is it REAL ?

Don't know if most of you are aware, but these last 2 days there have been 2 Youtube channels posting about audio burn-in.

The first came from Paul of PS Audio:



The second is from a guy called Andrew Robinson - he seems to be some sort of anti-audiophile of sorts, has had many weird videos in the past, on in which he basically said a class-d audio reinforcement amp like the Crown (a few hundred dollars) is as good as it gets when it comes to amps and most high-end expensive a/b or class a amps are a waste of money.

High-End Audio Break-In Is BS

Now, the main argument from Paul is that it sounds different, depending on type of component (phono pre-amps couple of hours, amps could be even 30-40 hours). And the improvement is so good, that he (and I believe he's not even by far the only audio company that does it) has a dedicated space where they burn in different electronics for different periods of time BEFORE selling them.

Now, I'm not aware of any clear audio measurements that show burn in vs no burn in, but then again i have not searched that much - the only thing I 100% know is that SPEAKERS, the speakers i've had, DO benefit from burn in after a few weeks - and so do subwoofers.

What's your take on it ? I'll be honest - i don't know of any scientific measurements, but I have heard it in speakers, and the Andrew guy seems awfully pretentious (when taking into context some of his previous "anti audiophile" videos) and seems to not know what he's talking about exactly.

 

With most equipment it makes a difference, but not always.

 

It is real and can be measured scientifically. Some things, of course, need longer to burn in. The copper foil, paper, and wax capacitors I put in my DAC sounded decent at first, then downright awful for a couple days, sibilant and obnoxious. They finally opened up after around 100 hours of play time. People have done measurements that show distinct changes on a scope after capacitor burn in. It's definitely legit.

 

Yes.

 

Most people don't know how capacitors are made, or their make up and how they function with electricity. But your right, it is real, I've heard it many times myself with new gear.
beave

 

It is real.

 

have you ever bought a new component or speaker and noticed that the sound changed during the first few weeks or months from when you first powered up ?

 

in case you havent noticed media provocation sells.

 

If you think very well about it, it doesn't matter at all.

Anybody should take her/his time before having a clear judgement about any piece of audio gear, so factor in burn in if you wish, no problem. why not? what's the difference? does the first minute count? the first hour? the only important factor is your feeling with that "thing" in the long term. did it change? did your mind change? it doesn't matter.

 

I just got a Yamaha A-S1100 a week ago from today. I have kept it on the entire time, and played about 30 records on it so far. I can tell a difference. The highs aren't as sharp as when I first got it, the drums and percussion are sitting better in the mix now ( they were too upfront at first, and this is going back to the first recordings I listened to when I got the amp), and the bass is more defined. It is sounding better and I only suspect from what I have read about this amp online that I still have another week or two of burn in on this amp before it settles in with its forever sound. I really can't wait, because it is only going to get better and better. Im certain this isn't in my head either.

 

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think that it's your ears burning in and your brain getting used to the new equipment than any changes in the equipment itself.

 

What Andrew fails to consider is that gear designers will often voice the gear based on it's broke-in condition, so of course it's not likely to sound worse following break-in. If it did, they'd likely go back to the drawing board.

 

We've had a lot of threads about this over the years. I'm not convinced about "burn in" in most cases -- for burn in to occur, something has to change over a period of use and then stabilize and stop changing, regardless of any further changes in operating condition (otherwise it's just continuing to burn in or, really, continuing to break down, break down is definitely happening).

I think more often things change with use and changing conditions -- operating temperature rising and stabilizing, dielectrics charging and discharging, etc. -- but then they go back to prior states when left not in use, and "break in" starts all over again (so, again, it's not really "break in"), or, they just continue to break down with use, like vacuum tubes.

Mechanical parts certainly can reach a point where they go from new and stiff to mobile and stable before possibly breaking down to the point of failure.

But if the electronic equipment goes into a break-in room where it gets played for 100 hours or whatever, then gets boxed up and sits in inventory for a month, I'm not sure there's any permanent, persistent change that's taken place and remains when the gear gets fired up again.

 

That may be true for some things, but I am certain it isn't for others. I know I have read on here about people using models and sending them back for new ones for whatever reason and the new ones are way different until a few weeks later.

I can assure you for my Yamaha amp that it isn't my ears getting used to it. The balance is very noticeably different, especially the bass and highs. There is no denying it.

 

It only matters to the listener. If they hear it, then it’s real to them. I’m fairly agnostic, but the only aspect of burn-in that I struggle with is why does burn-in always sound better? Can’t wrap my head around that one.

 

See @Helom's reply above. When gear is breaking-in, burning-in, bedding-in or otherwise moving to some sort of ideal stable state, it has not yet reached the point for which the designer voiced it. In theory.

I know for sure that "warm up" makes a difference with tube amps-- you can often hear them groaning as they move up to temperature. I believe that I have experienced changes early in the life of a piece of equipment (i.e. "break-in"), but I am not qualified to argue the point. As @Jimi Floyd notes above, all that matters is my satisfaction in the long run. Of course, he wasn't speaking of my personal satisfaction. That would be weird.

 

If it makes you feel better to believe it, knock yourself out!

I have to add that when I add a new component to my system I just hook it up and sit down and listen to music. I never listen to the same thing over and over again and I always have new recordings being added to my collection that I'm listening to so I seldom make any comparisons from one listening session to another or have any frame of reference. I seriously feel that if there is any change (break-in) in a component I'm never going to hear it.

 

In my experience, burn in is definitely a thing. In most cases, things just get smoother and more balanced sounding, its usually a subtle but noticeable difference.

I've had two pieces of gear, strangely enough one of them PS Audio lol, that were so all over the place during the first 100 hours or so I almost returned them. First was the PS Audio S300. At first it sounded alright, then too much bass, then not enough bass and bright, then just weird sounding, etc... After 100 hours or so it settled down enough to be enjoyable, but it took a good 250-300 hours to really level off.

The next one was my Dynaudio X18's. Holy crap that was a weird journey! I've always heard Dyn's have a long break in, but man! One day they sounded great, the next day I would want to leave the room, the soundstage width and depth would change from day to day, and they would sound forward one day and super laid back the next. Was frigging bizarre.

I'm glad I rode it out with these guys, because I love the sound of my rig now, but damn, these two pieces of gear were crazy lol.

 

In my experience what is most likely to require burn in is tube gear built with large capacitors and transformers. I had a Line Magnetic amp EL34 amp that sounded laugh-out-loud terrible for the first hour or so. On the other hand, I once read where McIntosh told a customer his solid state amplifier would be fully burned in about five seconds after turning it on - also consistent with my experience.

Of course, because audiophile, even the truth is taken to ridiculous extreme, and we hear people saying things like "at hour 1000 some of the bass came back, but then I lost it again at hour 1500, but I'm hopeful to have bass again sometime by next year".

 

You could just be burning-in your ears and brain to be come accustomed to a sound you don't initially like much?

In the same way a seat in a new car may feel slightly strange and uncomfortable compared to your old car.Within a few weeks your body has become accustomed to it and feels perfectly comfortable,even though it is the same shape as when you initially found it it slightly 'jarring'.

 

This theory has some validity to it, but only to a certain extent. One does not adjust their ears to sibilance. It's crazy to think that I would suddenly just get used to and be ok with distortion that is clearly audible. It's not even a "sounds good" or "sounds bad" it's a "I hear distortion"...until I didn't anymore. Very obvious burn in period.

 

Components with moving parts, like phono cartridges and speakers, definitely do take some time to loosen up and sound their best. But solid-state electronic components? No, I'm not buying it, unless you're talking about long-disused vintage gear with old capacitors that may reform after some use. Otherwise the only thing "breaking in" are your ears.

 

except for the fact that for certain products, as I mentioned above, such as the A-S1100 that I along with many other owners say that there is a break in period, and I still havne't heard any owners say there isn't. Only non owners. That has to tell you something. Especially when many of us don't claim break in periods for other amps.

 

I've never experienced it. I'd assume you'd have to listen to the same piece of music over and over and over again in order to reliably say it's a thing and there's just too much music out there for me to experience to put that time and effort into it.

 

Tube equipment for sure it makes a difference. With some speakers like my Spendor D7's, definitely. I haven't heard wire burn in and open up yet and in terms of SS gear (like my Pass amp) I only notice that it sounds better after being warmed up for an hour compared to played cold. I never heard my Pass amp burn in. This is simply my listening experience.