I've never encountered an AT that didn't perform well with a level tonearm. They certainly don't need added brightness. I suggest setting tracking force at middle of the recommended range and check azimuth using a mini bubble level placed on the head shell.
Possibly, 66db is typically too much gain for .5mv. My pre is switchable between 36, 46, 56 and 66db. 66db does sound less clean and noticeably edgy, not bright though, 56db is perfect. Yours is fixed at 66db?
Not sure how the ART 9 would respond, but I found my OC 9 ml II sounded much better with an SUT and less gain at the preamp than straight into the pre with higher gain. Opened up the sound and the tonal balance seems much more even. Of course, YMMV
Apologies if i am cluttering the thread with the observations from my somewhat hastily conducted trial and error experience of setting the cart. I am gonna buy an azimuth bubble level to be sure that it the cart is spot on,although sometimes proper azimuth deviates from the visible alignment of the cantilever,but i dont have the measurement tools,software,protractors,misroscopes and expertise to do a proffesional setup.The VTA appears level and the tracking force is at the recommended value. The cart is far from sounding poor and my observations,both positive and negative,were against the highest standards and far from conclusive.My system is not ultra high end,but it is very revealing and neutral,which makes it very easy to evaluate different carts.The ART9 is very promising,approaching the 10 hour mark and not far from where i want(and expect) it to be.More time is needed... I will share one last concern.The cart lacks a bit of colour,atmosphere and tonal density;it all space,detail,fluidity and not much texture,making my recordings to sound more alike and slightly homogenising the timbre of the acoustic instruments.For example the vintage sound of my 45 rpm releases of Rumours and Love Forever Changes is somewhat diminished,but from what i have read in the forums the ART9 just needs more burn-in time to gain colour and the cart itself needs more burn-in time than most.
I may borrow a friend of mine's Vincent PHO-8,which is 60db,but i dont think it is even half as good as mine.Stages with fixed specs like the Anatek and the NVA are very impressive,but with obvious drawbacks. I have been eyeing the iPhono 2 or upgrading to a Devialet,which is a true one box solution.
The gain should only affect where you are on the volume pot for loudness. If there is a problem it is lack of headroom in that design but it would be poor if 0.5 output caused problems as that is a pretty common figure. There aren't so many lower output cartridges these days. I would avoid iphono and Devaliate from the comments I have read. Suggest Rega or Lehmann models at around £800. I would certainly recommend the NVA phono 2 which should be fine with the AT and has massive headroom and you can have twin power supplies for less money (which improves sound even furthur).
67 db is way too much gain for a .5mv cart- by the book it is 11db too much. I tried the ART 9 with my phono pre at 66 db and it was noticeably harsh and edgy. Set it to 56db and it sounds beautiful. Too much gain is likely to be most of the reason why Mainman's system isn't sounding optimum.
I would agree that 10 hours is probably too early to be making judgments with many/most cartridges. But I would respectfully disagree that gain should only affect where you are on the volume pot. I can see running a .5 mV cartridge with 67 dB of gain to be problematic in many systems. Perhaps not all but many. My personal opinion is that gain matching between phono and cartridge is highly critical, particularly with low output moving coils. In my system, with a pretty decent phono preamp that has infinitely adjustable phono gain in the 55-70 dB range, the window for optimum performance is very narrow for a .25 mV cartridge: certainly within 2-3 dB and increasing gain by 1.5-2 dB once the sweet spot has been found results in compromised sound quality. A hardening up of sound quality along with a collapsing sound stage and particularly image depth. Going 5-10 dB above would have me not wanting to listen to my system. If I had a fixed gain phono stage, though, I'd be blissfully ignorant of this. In a quick look at the NVA website, for example, it appears that input sensitivity (gain) is fully custom as per phono cartridge with the Phono 2, which makes sense and would seem to indicate they feel it is pretty important too, regardless of headroom.
I will be keeping the Anatek till i decide that i really need a phono with adjustments.I dont think that the Rega and the Lehmann would be better.The NVA would probably be,but it is still fixed design and it is a three box affair.I already have TT power supply,a pre,two monoblocks and other stuff,cluttering my Hutter rack. I have been thinking about an used BMC stage,a supposedly end of the road component. Devialet is one of the amp choices,if i fancy a change and hopefully a true upgrade.The other is in a total different direction,Line Magnetic 219ia.Brave pills needed!
Devialet is a bling pricey lifestyle product that uses digital amps. I'm confident it would be a downgrade.
I thought that the gain of the NVA was set during the build proccess and/or could require opening the unit and swapping resistors,etc. My last three carts,Koetsu,Zu 103 and Kuzma CAR 40,were all between 0.3 and 0.4.I didnt experience any compromises in sound quality,i will give the AT more burn in time.
Are you sure?There are so many reviewers and users,who claim that the sound is anything,but "lifestyle" grade. It has Class D output stages,just as the Hypex,Pascal and many more highly regarded amplifier modules,which are already ubiquitous.Hell,i am running Ncores and my previous amp was a (heavily biased)Class A SS monster.
I've not heard class D that sounded great so I am sceptical. Anyway the price alone should tell you where it's aimed. I would call it a hi-end lifestyle product but if you want convenience and style it may suit.
Yes, clearly it can be set during the build process as indicated on their website. As I said, it's an indication that they feel that a "one size fits all" approach to gain is not best. Not sure if you can further adjust internally after purchase, but it would certainly be a good idea if you could. If your gain is fixed and you cannot lower or raise it with your existing stage, how would you actually know whether your sound has been compromised by the inability to adjust gain with your other cartridges or with this one? It's quite possible (and highly likely in my experience) that your previous cartridges could have sounded better with lower gain as well and the requirement for optimal gain with a .3 mV cartridge and a .5 mV cartridge can be significantly different IMO, again based on experience with a phono stage with infinitely variable gain. I'd expect the BMC to be an outstanding phono stage by the way; I've spent the last 10 years using an Aqvox Phono 2 CI, also a current mode stage, which was designed by the owner/designer at BMC. Like the Aqvox, the BMC is likely to work best with low impedance MC designs, probably those with an internal impedance of 3-10 ohms, so that might be a consideration for you.
Well,my thinking is that if i am happy with my Ncores,i should be happy with the Devialet,too,maybe even more.Its phono stage is highly praised too,the digitising shouldnt be an issue and i am not that keen on its lifestyle looks,but these amplifiers make sense not only for the convenience factor.
Well,thats the thing with fixed spec stages,theoretically superior sounding,but only with carts that match their gain and loading parameters. I know about the Aqvox too,his previous stage.He released a Signature version of the BMC recently,but it is very expensive. I would rather buy an used stage,not only because it is cheaper,but because i dont want to burn it in.It is easy to do it to a DAC,but too involving with vinyl.It would be hard to find an used NVA one.
Trust me gain and loading is not critical with NVA. I can't get a straight answer on gain from Richard Dunn of NVA but I would say it is about average or a little higher with 0.4 mv AT. Standard MC loading is 450 ohm which works fine with 100 ohm and above loading requirement. He claims the headroom provided by the over size power supplies is more critical factor in this design. Basically it's not fussy about precise loading and gain can be set for ultra high or low output when ordered. Standard gain should be fine between 0.3 and 0.6 cartridge output. So for AT and Ortofon ranges the standard spec used for the phono 2 MC will be fine. Also remember you can return within 30 days for refund so in effect you get a free trial. I believe only one has ever been returned. If you want advice on Ncore and Devialet I suggest posting a question on Hi-Fi Subjectivist forum. I feel that digitising analogue signals cannot be good. Both Nick Gorham and Colin Wonford of Longdog and Incatech/TQ fame post there. Though out of your price range the Longdog valve MC stage is another I would strongly recommend.
Pulled the trigger on a new Classic Signature a few weeks ago and was trying to decide on what cartridge to purchase. I did have Classic 1 prior and put about 200 hours on a Soundsmith Zephyr, but never could get that cartridge to play to my liking. I ended up mostly playing my wood body Denon 103R. Tried the Zephyr on the Signature hoping it would perform better with the 3D arm, but no luck so back to the Denon. Over the past 10 days I've been moving my plan from the Cadenza Bronze to the Lyra Delos then to the VAS Nova. Made up my mind on the VAS, but then I read this thread and the AG one! So now looks like I'll be ordering the ART9 and hoping for the best!
I am using Ncores and if i buy the NVA it would be six boxes with interconnects.The Devialet is one box with adjustable phono settings.Would it be inferior sounding?This is a question for a different thread,but the reviewers and owners feedback is extremely positive and not just from style and convenience perspective.I have heard digitised vinyl many times,you would never guess it and with much cheaper amps than a Devialet.The French company have even started releasing audiophile records,along with lacquers! The Longdog looks impressive,but it is a bit pricey for me.
I think you will find the Art-9 and the 3d arm to be a perfect match. Slightly lighter arm, slightly more compliant cartridge. Let us know when you try it. Cartridge gets better with break-in, but you should hear its quality right away.
Couple things, may have already been covered. 1) Set the top of the cartridge level with the playing surface, forget about the tonearm, you want the cartridge top level. I use pencil lead 2pcs about an inch long taped to the top of the head, this extends the measurement shelf so you can use a ruler and not have to bump the actual cartridge body. Measure the distance up from the record surface of the front and back and then level it out. Those small round bubble levels are not accurate enough when making small adjustments. 2) Your gain is too high, your pushing the preamp possibly into slight clipping mode. I believe in the KAB gain calculator and for 0.5mV you should be about 56dB, you might have to raise the amp volume some but you should actually hear less surface noise and more music along with detail. More gain does nothing but add more noise. 3) Azimuth needs to be as perfect as can be, especially with these ML, Line contact type stylus. With azimuth adjusted using either an oscope, dvm or the fozmeter, you will level out each channel and the output of each channel will go up, that is where you get the huge wide soundstage effect when the channels are balanced, you will also minimize crosstalk. I use the foz meter, and Musical Surroundings will tell you if you get each channel within 4-5 clicks on the meter, you are doing good. Taking my sweet time, patience, I have the L and R channel readings within 1-2 clicks and the Center reading just .5 click off zero. Once you get into high end MC like an ART9, or my Delos, the cartridge is designed to perform its best when the coils, magnets and innards are all lined up perfectly when playing, they are designed with the top of the cart LEVEL. And also do not vary your VTF from what AT says you should be at, right now your cart is new and moving the VTF all over the place before the suspension breaks in, I think is not wise. Lyra suggests 1.75g and that is where I have been since getting my cart last year, this is where Lyra state the "New Angle" design performs best.....and I hear it. At the end of the day, your ears are the best test. But to start with a new cart my suggestion is do what the mfg states, because they designed the cart in a certain manner.
My opinion is Devialet will turn out to be an expensive retrograde step. You need to find a dealer who will compare digitised Devialet style vinyl playback with an all analogue system using a good stage and class A/B amps. Should not be a problem in London area. My view is they are ridiculously priced in any case especially if you find the Longdog expensive. Only reason for going to a one box system is convenience and domestic pressure. If you want something more compact there are other powerful integrateds that avoid digital processing and include decent phono stages, but likely not up a to £700 separate stage. Just don't buy on reviews.
