Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso: Your Favorite Album?

Here are the peak values for 'Darwin', BMG MPCD00205, Italy 1995(?)

Track 1
Peak level 90.8 %
Test CRC 0E8FD62E
Accurately ripped (confidence 2) [1CEF8FBE]

Track 2
Peak level 90.6 %
Test CRC 93EC31B1
Accurately ripped (confidence 2) [F9129080]

Track 3
Peak level 85.5 %
Test CRC 922565C9
Accurately ripped (confidence 2) [91DA43A0]

Track 4
Peak level 90.8 %
Test CRC 6D3B771D
Accurately ripped (confidence 2) [051A5832]

Track 5
Peak level 89.5 %
Test CRC E28461C8
Accurately ripped (confidence 2) [CB5AB814]

Track 6
Peak level 90.8 %
Test CRC 01639F82
Accurately ripped (confidence 2) [8DF26819]

Track 7
Peak level 89.5 %
Test CRC 47D13C91
Accurately ripped (confidence 2) [23B8B4D5]

 

Hmm. At least level shifted then. But not a uniform level shift across the album, these are the track differences:

Code:

1	79.8	90.8	11
2	73.6	90.6	17
3	61.5	85.5	24
4	75.2	90.8	15.6
5	59.3	89.5	30.2
6	82.9	90.8	7.9
7	61.6	89.5	27.9

Anyway, thanks guys for posting the levels. I'm reasonably assured that the MPCDs are not the horrible gold masters, so I'm gonna give them a try.

 

Oh, this I can guarantee. I thought you were trying to figure out if the currently in print discs were the same as the MPCD versions.

The MPCDs are definitely nothing to do with those gold pieces of garbage. I think they originally came out in the mid 90's, replacing the CDOR versions and might even nearly match those except for some volume increase.

 

I just listened to the MPCD 'Darwin!' again this morning, immediately followed by the gold 'BMS'. The swirling synth effect at the beginning of "In Volo" started to hurt my ears almost immediately. Ugh. Guess I will need to track down all the Dischi Ricordi masterings.

Sometimes this forum is a blessing AND a curse. Thanks all for the info.

 

So there's quite a few Banco cd versions I guess for those early albums:

Italy CDOR
Italy MPCD
Italy Gold Digi
Italy Mini-LP
Japan K32Y
Japan KICP
Japan Mini-LP
Japan Blu-Spec

 

They're not alone. This seems to be the norm for a lot of Italian Prog releases. I was just reading one of the PFM threads and a similar deal there.

It's almost like someone at Sony/BMG decided these didn't sound "good enough" and ran them all through nasty NR and peak limiters in the late 90s/early 00s. At the time I didn't know any better, but now some of them don't seem listenable.

 

Another vote for the Dischi Ricordi versions. I think you will be very happy with these!

 

Had a look at ebay right now to see if there was a original Dischi Ricordi pressing available, none found. The older ones are the MPCD series, that frequently have a "STOP" sticker, but no 1988-1990 releases.
If looking for these, ask the seller if the cat.n. is CDOR [number]. Unless we can verify the original mastering has been reused later, this is the only sure indication - the MPCD are still on the Dischi Ricordi label!

 

It's not a level shift, it's a different mastering - enter the values in a spreadsheet and plot a line graph, the curves are very different.

 

This old thread might have some helpful info, although it seems to be dealing with just the first album. I thought there was more info on Banco here but I did find this for now. There is also some assumptions about King in there that are wrong, as I personally think they were definitely EQing things by the time they released Banco CD in question (s/t), but maybe not Darwin K32Y which was early on. Of King Jpn Bancos on CD, I only like Darwin and I think CDOR is maybe slightly better for that.
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=99914

 

Well, I am trying to figure out what is what, really. The situation is complicated because Dischi Ricordi ceased operation in 1994 and was absorbed into BMG.

What we know so far:

1. Dischi Ricordi CDORs are good and quiet.
2. MPCDs are similar sounding to the CDORs, but louder. According to the posted peak levels they are a distinct mastering from the CDORs. Since they were released in 1995 or later, they are essentially BMGs, even though Dischi Ricordi name may be still on them.
3. The (BMG) gold digipacks suck the hairy wazoo.
4. The current BMG versions in print may or may not match the MPCDs.

I'm giving up trying to figure out the Japanese releases.

 

I'm going to add to the confusion, and I can't even explain this one.

My copy of the debut is on Dischi Ricordi. On the tray card and spine, the catalog # is CDOR 8041. BUT on the disc itself, the catalog # is CDMRL 6094. The CD was manufactured in Austria by Koch-Digitaldisc. I bought it back in the day at Tower as a cutout, and it came in one of those old clear blister packs, so I don't imagine two copies were swapped.

Strange, huh?

 

My s/t copy is also made by Koch and it shares same number on CD as yours. CDOR 8041 on the back, which is without bar-code.
They might be making in Austia some for distribution outside of Italy, but used the artwork printed in Italy.
?
And I think it sounds great

 

All three first albums are great, but since we are voting for the FAVORITE, my vote is for Darwin. I just like it more than two others.

Recently bought "Come in un'ultima cena" K32Y but haven't listened to it yet.

 

I bought the current in print Darwin! and Io Sono. They indeed are the MPCDs.

I got Io Sono first and liked it tremendously. The MPCD sound quality was OK. Not perfect, but enjoyable.

Encouraged, I bought Darwin! also. To my unpleasant surprise, the sound quality was noticeably worse. It was louder and had a weird, harsh, unnatural sound. It was especially bothersome on the vocals. I would have liked the album a lot too, but I could not get over the bad sound quality. Is this album poorly recorded to begin with? I remember someone mentioned earlier some sound weirdness on the original LP as well.

 

never heard of them...what i'm misssing? they are italian, right?

 

This is a tough one. The 1975 Banco album has the best versions of the backing tracks, since they were re-recorded, but is let down by the English lyrics IMHO. Side one however is stunning, since it includes 'L'Albero Del Pane', which isn't on the Italian albums and is a storming track, and 'Metamorphosis' only has a couple of lines of lyrics in it's 15 minute length and is by far the best version. I'd love to hear Side Two with Italian lyrics - that would be my number one.

So of those in the list I would plump for 'Io Sono..'.

The 90's re-recordings of the first 2 albums are also worth checking out...heresy I know lol

R

 

No, just very lucky guy.
The catalog number CDMRL 6094 shows that the disc was a full-price pressing run; later they put it in the mid-price run, as CDOR 8041.
AFAIK, i've *never* seen a CDMRL of Banco - and i was in Italy waiting for them at any price tag - so probably it was just a mistake in the pressing plant that was corrected very early. This may explain the different tray card/spine numbering. The Dischi Ricordi Banco CDs in Italy were released directly in the mid-price series, since their LP/tapes counterpart were already in the mid-price catalog.
Now i want to check out *carefully* mines...

 

Checked out my Banco CDs...
Both Darwin! and ISNL are pressed in Italy from Pozzoli CD and the cat.n. does match disc/cards/matrix; the debut cd... i have myself the Koch disc made in Austria CDMRL 6094 while the cards are CDOR 8041.
What's more intresting is the matrix on the cd:

Manu by Koch A30.618.006.094.1 @ 1

The 618.006 looks like an Ariola (Germany) catalog number. I'm not aware of a early Ariola release of Banco (Manticore label?), knew the King K32Y for Darwin and nothing more. Anyone knows? Should be a 1987-1988 release, not later. Maybe a cross-check with ELP cd's can show some similarities, since the Manticore Germany were same mastering as Dischi Ricordi.

At the end, it's kind of fun, because:
1) the CD has a matrix number, possibly Ariola-style A30.618.006.094.1
2) which is different from the cat.n. silkscreened on the label, Dischi Ricordi full-price style CDMRL 6094
3) and the jewel case tray card has another different number, Dischi Ricordi mid-price style, CDOR 8041.

Quite a mess!

 

For USA people: here's a CDOR release auction for Io Sono Nato Libero

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BANCO-DEL-M...400265964134?pt=Music_CDs&hash=item5d31b5ea66

Not related with the seller.

 

Hi all,
I have a Question:
Banco first three albums Are a True Wonder in my book. simply three of the best Prog albums ever.
During the years I bought the Gold Digipack and The Mini LP Japanese CD - but they all sound too FLAT and loud in my ears.

Lately I had a chance to buy early pressing from Japan - as follow :

1)Io Sono Nato Libero : Japan CD(King Records KICP-2815). from 1995.
2)Darwin! : Japan CD(King Records KICP-2706). from 1993.
3)Same : Japan CD(King Records KICP-2814). from 1995.

They are all kind of expansive (around $40 a pop...) - but its important to me to get the best version of this amazing Cd's.

can anyone comment on the quality of the remaster on this Cd's ? are they recommended ?

Thanks !

 

Get the currently in print versions on Sony. They went back to the mid 90's masterings on Ricordi/BMG. These beat the Japanese versions on King.

 

thanks!
Where on the WEB can i get those ?

 

Well, pretty much anywhere carrying Euro 70's as they are in print, but checking Amazon is always a good start, no?

Here they are.

First three albums and all only 5.84 Euro!

http://www.amazon.it/s/ref=nb_sb_ss...+del+mutuo+soccorso&sprefix=banco%2Caps%2C288

 

Hi Tank,
Thank you !