So, what is going on here? http://www.hdtracks.com/holland-beachboys-253270 (under about this album: Mastering Engineer: Kevin Bartley / Capitol Studios) http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/109369/The_Beach_Boys-Holland-FLAC_192kHz24bit_Download (extensive notes referring to SACD and Kevin Gray). Same thing for the new Pet Sounds digital release... http://www.hdtracks.com/pet-sounds-mono-stereo-253257 (no mastering notes) http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/109369/The_Beach_Boys-Holland-FLAC_192kHz24bit_Download (extensive notes referring to SACD and Kevin Gray). Are these the same or what?
Update with Holland which does appear to be DSD sourced. I don't have Pet Sounds, but given the release notes on Acoustic Sounds, I'm pretty sure it is the Kevin Gray DSD sourced mastering everywhere. Presumed DSD sourced (as I bought the SACD) ------------------------------------ Surfin' Safari (credits Kevin Gray) Surfin' USA (credits Kevin Gray) Surfer Girl (credits Kevin Gray) Little Deuce Coupe (credits Kevin Gray) Shut Down, Vol 2. (credits Kevin Gray) DSD sourced ---------------- The Beach Boys Today! (credits Kevin Gray) Summer Days (and Summer Nights) (does not credit Kevin Gray) Beach Boys' Party! (credits Kevin Gray) Smiley Smile (does not credit Kevin Gray) Holland (I have the HDTracks which does not credit Kevin Gray, but also released on Acoustic Sounds which DOES). NOT DSD sourced ---------------------- All Summer Long The Beach Boys' Christmas Album Wild Honey Friends 20/20 It will be interesting to see when the SACD is released if All Summer Long has two different masterings.
Why can't Capitol just be 100% transparent about this information? Just tell us what these things are. It's really not hard.
Wasn't Capitol merged with Universal? Not that it matters really. There's been a lot of "activity" with Sinatra's Capitol catalog too. Activity in a re-disorganized industry could be the culprit.
DSD is the native format for SACD. Since Kevin Gray is mastering for SACD, that would be the format the SACD digital masters would be in. Since HDTracks, etc. sell PCM downloads, the DSD digital file has to be converted to PCM. Since that conversion is not lossless there are features of the PCM file that reveal that it was likely converted from DSD. DSD = Direct Stream Digital PCM = Pulse Code Modulation
Thanks for the excellent summary. How does the new Holland download sound? Can you hear the "Kevin Gray-touch" ?
Is it better than the Holland caribou cd I listened yesterday on my playstation 1 (gosh was it good, even better than the last batch of remaster ) ? I'm a bit fed up with the remastering, repacking process (as would have said Morrissey once but never applied to his case).
I'm not sure this can get any more bizarre. I just downloaded the "Pet Sounds (mono & stereo)" from HDTracks. The mono does not appear to be sourced from DSD and is very dynamically compressed/limited. According to the DR database there has never been a previous Pet Sounds release with a track DR as low as 6. The stereo DOES appear to be sourced from DSD and the dynamics are intact. What kind of Frankenstein release is this? Code: foobar2000 1.3.8 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2015-09-13 09:59:34 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: The Beach Boys / Pet Sounds (Mono & Stereo) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR10 -3.28 dB -15.44 dB 2:26 01-Wouldn't It Be Nice (Mono) DR8 -3.30 dB -14.39 dB 2:35 02-You Still Believe In Me (Mono) DR7 -3.46 dB -12.82 dB 2:30 03-That's Not Me (Mono) DR8 -3.92 dB -14.86 dB 2:54 04-Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder) (Mono) DR8 -2.80 dB -13.47 dB 3:06 05-I'm Waiting For The Day (Mono) DR7 -3.78 dB -13.61 dB 2:20 06-Let's Go Away For A While (Mono) DR7 -3.17 dB -13.66 dB 2:59 07-Sloop John B (Mono) DR7 -2.97 dB -12.37 dB 2:53 08-God Only Knows (Mono) DR6 -2.67 dB -11.73 dB 3:11 09-I Know There's An Answer (Mono) DR7 -2.93 dB -13.09 dB 2:55 10-Here Today (Mono) DR7 -3.04 dB -12.36 dB 3:16 11-I Just Wasn't Made For These Times (Mono) DR7 -3.09 dB -12.16 dB 2:23 12-Pet Sounds (Mono) DR10 -3.81 dB -16.51 dB 2:51 13-Caroline, No (Mono) DR12 -1.42 dB -16.36 dB 2:34 14-Wouldn't It Be Nice (Stereo) DR14 -0.95 dB -18.41 dB 2:36 15-You Still Believe In Me (Stereo) DR12 -0.85 dB -16.92 dB 2:31 16-That's Not Me (Stereo) DR12 -2.82 dB -16.83 dB 2:59 17-Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder) (Stereo) DR13 -0.43 dB -18.02 dB 3:07 18-I'm Waiting For The Day (Stereo) DR12 -0.53 dB -16.83 dB 2:26 19-Let's Go Away For A While (Stereo) DR13 -0.32 dB -16.71 dB 3:01 20-Sloop John B (Stereo) DR12 -0.27 dB -16.71 dB 2:56 21-God Only Knows (Stereo) DR13 -1.96 dB -17.79 dB 3:19 22-I Know There's An Answer (Stereo) DR13 -0.19 dB -17.54 dB 3:09 23-Here Today (Stereo) DR13 -0.31 dB -17.37 dB 3:22 24-I Just Wasn't Made For These Times (Stereo) DR14 -0.57 dB -18.23 dB 2:37 25-Pet Sounds (Stereo) DR13 -1.06 dB -17.71 dB 2:51 26-Caroline, No (Stereo) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 26 Official DR value: DR10 Samplerate: 96000 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 24 Bitrate: 3035 kbps Codec: FLAC ================================================================================
And the mono version of Pet Sounds in the (stereo & mono) version on HDTracks looks like this.. Limited to -3db... Something went horribly horribly wrong.
Maybe that mono version on HDTracks was sourced from the 40th anniversary DVD-Audio. You can check this if you hear noise reduction during the intros.
I have the DVD-Audio and the waveform looks quite different not at all limited/clipped like that. The big question is, what is Acoustic Sounds selling? Since their release notes mention the Kevin Gray SACD mastering, it better not be the same thing.
I've compared Pet Sounds (mono & stereo) 24/96 from HDTracks and Acoustic Sounds and they are identical. Also, have to retract my previous statement about the DVD-Audio, once level matched they do appear to be very similar.
The new digital release has the ultimate noise reduction during the intros (assuming you mean the silence before the music starts). They cut it off. Every mono track starts immediately with no silent lead in.
This sums up my problem with downloads in general, but physical releases sometimes aren't any better in terms of provenance or quality. I'm still going to hold out for the SACDs.
This is such a shame since the other Beach Boys downloads are generally very well-done. Why they felt it necessary to cut corners in such a big way for Pet Sounds boggles the mind.
I asked Acoustic Sounds why the mono tracks don't appear to be DSD conversions like all the other Kevin Gray SACD related digital releases. We'll see what they say. Their description of the 24/96 and 24/192 "mono & stereo" releases is cut and pasted from their SACD description, so it should be the same.
I hope this isn't rude of me, but a lot of this talk about different downloads and CDs has me a bit confused. So I'm just gonna cut to the chase... Is the reissued Holland out on CD yet? I'm not all that concerned about all the other business, but I did like that they added the (semi-) unreleased "We Got Love" to the tracklist.
I needed to revisit this, given that Pet Sounds has mono tracks that don't appear to be DSD sourced, but the stereo is. So, I've had to double check them and it turns out that All Summer Long is like that also. The mono is not DSD sourced while the stereo is. Presumed DSD sourced (as I bought the SACD) ------------------------------------ Surfin' Safari (credits Kevin Gray) Surfin' USA (credits Kevin Gray) Surfer Girl (credits Kevin Gray) Little Deuce Coupe (credits Kevin Gray) Shut Down, Vol 2. (credits Kevin Gray) DSD sourced ---------------- All Summer Long (stereo) (does not credit Kevin Gray) The Beach Boys Today! (mono & stereo) (credits Kevin Gray) Summer Days (and Summer Nights) (mono & stereo) (does not credit Kevin Gray) Beach Boys' Party! (credits Kevin Gray) Pet Sounds (stereo) (credits Kevin Gray on Acoustic Sounds only) Smiley Smile (mono & stereo) (does not credit Kevin Gray) Holland (HDTracks credits Kevin Bartley, but Acoustic Sounds credits Kevin Gray). NOT DSD sourced ---------------------- All Summer Long (mono) (does not credit Kevin Gray) Pet Sounds (mono) (credits Kevin Gray on Acoustic Sounds only) The Beach Boys' Christmas Album (does not credit Kevin Gray) Wild Honey (does not credit Kevin Gray) Friends (does not credit Kevin Gray) 20/20 (does not credit Kevin Gray)
