Beatles Please Please Me Album Stereo Mix- MFSL Version

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by stereoguy, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. stereoguy

    stereoguy The King Of Stereo Mixing Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brooklyn
    So, Today, I was listening with headphones to a CD made from the MFSL Lp of "Please Please Me", in Stereo.

    Now we know that George Martin basically put all the instruments on one channel of the BTR twin track machine, and the vocals on the other, then overdubbed a few parts stereo to stereo. (Except for "Boys", which has Ringos vocal and Ringos drums on the same side)

    But today, when playing "I Saw Her Standing There", at least on this version, which was heavily EQ'd by MFSL, it sounds for all the world like Lennon's rhythm guitar is on the "Vocal" side, and Harrisons lead guitar is on the "instrumental" side.
    Also, on "Misery", the opening guitar chord is Definitely on the "Vocal" side, you can hear it bounce off the back wall of Abbey Road and then get picked up a few milliseconds later by the mics on the "Instrumental" side.

    Is this just excessive "bleed" of the two items or did GM mic it that way for those two songs, as he did with Ringo for "Boys", but the 1960s masterings kind of mask it?

    I'll say one thing....some people dont like the MFSL mastering, but boy is it clear as a bell.
    I can hear things on this version I dont anywhere else.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
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  2. Chemguy

    Chemguy Forum Resident

    The mofi Beatles have great DR ratings! Makes me think they must be half decent.
    Are they?
     
  3. Jerry

    Jerry Grateful Gort Staff

    Location:
    New England
    Yes. Half decent, half smiley.
     
  4. Chemguy

    Chemguy Forum Resident

    Thanks, Jerry. Is the mono box that much better? I've got that, and I think it's terrific, with only a few issues.
     
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  5. stereoguy

    stereoguy The King Of Stereo Mixing Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brooklyn
    Great thread Hijack, guys....and from a Gort, no less.........
     
  6. Jerry

    Jerry Grateful Gort Staff

    Location:
    New England
    Hijack? I'm commenting on its mastering, which you're discussing in your first post. No?
     
  7. Chemguy

    Chemguy Forum Resident

    You could at least have put a smiley on that one.

    I meant no harm. I was actually excited by your post. Sorry I couldn't properly comment, but I was interested.
     
  8. RingoStarr39

    RingoStarr39 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Baden, PA
    Here's your answer. The sound of John's rhythm guitar on the right channel is the strumming itself that bled through the vocal mics.
    Which is why on some songs it sounds more like an acoustic guitar.
    The actual sound of the rhythm guitar is on the left with the rest of the instruments.
     
  9. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    DR ratings are only part of the story. Other parts? Not so good.

    So, yes, "half" decent...literally.
     
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  10. Onder

    Onder Forum Resident

    But not in the case of I Saw Her Standing There. The opening track does have the guitar amp mic panned to the right with the vocals.

    Ondra
     
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  11. action pact

    action pact Forum Resident

    Lennon used his acoustic-electric Gibson J-160E for most of the songs, but used his Rickenbacker 325 on I Saw Her Standing There, hence no mic bleed. And on the other tracks, only the acoustic guitar, not the amplified signal, is audible on the side with the vocals.

    As for Boys, almost certainly Martin assigned the drums to the side with vocals because of mic bleed.

    Now you now why most sessions since those days have overdubbed vocals!

    Lennon and Harrison in the studio with their Gibson J-160E's:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  12. stereoguy

    stereoguy The King Of Stereo Mixing Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brooklyn


    Lol.......no harm, No foul.
     
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  13. stereoguy

    stereoguy The King Of Stereo Mixing Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brooklyn







    Ahhhh........thank you!! That's a perfect explanation. On "Misery", The vocal mic that John was standing right in front of was picking up the acoustic guitar sound from the sound hole. The amp mic was panned to the other side with the rest of the instruments.
    On "Standing There " the amp mic is panned to the vocal side, gotta be.

    Thanks, Great info.
     
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  14. action pact

    action pact Forum Resident

    That's right, you got it!

    No, it's on the side with the rest of the backing track.
     
  15. joelee

    joelee Senior Member

    Location:
    Houston
    I love them. People that dislike like them are purists or IMO haven't heard them. They were mastered to be turned up LOUD.
     
  16. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    Greater Vancouver
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Onder

    Onder Forum Resident

    Incorrect. For some reason I Saw Her Standing Her DOES have John's amp mic panned to the right with the vocals.

    Ondra
     
  18. stereoguy

    stereoguy The King Of Stereo Mixing Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brooklyn


    You know, I just listened to "Standing There" again with headphones in a quiet room. It definitely sounds like Lennons Rickenbacker was panned to the "vocal" side. Its most obvious at the very beginning before the vocal starts (right after the "1,2,3,4") You can clearly hear George in the left channel and John in the opposite channel. Also, during Georges Guitar solo, I hear John in the other channel doing a little noodling. But check out the ending......John hits a STRONG chord as the very last note of the song.....and it clearly comes from the vocal side......its plain as day!!! The ending chord is what really proves it. That isnt a "bounce" off the walls of Abbey Road because its not delayed, even by a nanosecond. Its perfectly in time.

    What I'm thinking is that George Martin felt he wanted total control over the balance of the two guitars in that song when he was going to mix it to mono, because it was such a rocker. The only way to do that on the BTR twin track was to put the guitars on separate channels.

    I have to say that I'm convinced Lennons electric is on the Vocal channel. Also, I might add that its the MFSL equalization that REALLY lets you hear this. Its buried much more on my other versions. To really be convinced you need to hear the MFSL version. Its clearer than any other version of this I have ever heard.
     
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  19. Onrd

    Onrd I am not a number

    I'm a Beatles collector from way back in the Sixties. I must have at least 15 copies of Pepper on vinyl.
    I love my MFSL Beatles box. Everyone who has listened to it was floored by the quality of the pressings. I know MFSL has received a lot of criticism in these forums but I have to disagree with the naysayers. The vinyl is dead quiet and the music really rocks. I wouldn't sell my set for any amount of money. To each their own.
     
  20. tages

    tages Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    I asked this same question here a few years back - I think the first two songs recorded that day ("There's A Place" and "I Saw Her Standing There") have John's guitar to the right, if I remember correctly. Maybe something got moved after those two?
     
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  21. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    Location:
    Toronto
    By listening to the outtakes from the session that have trickled out over the years, you'll find that not every take had the guitar inputs assigned like this. The master of "I Saw Her Standing There" was assembled from multiple takes edited together; so John's guitar changes position throughout the song
     
  22. action pact

    action pact Forum Resident

    Maybe that's why I heard it wrong. The only decent stereo version I could find on YouTube was an outtake.
     
  23. Onder

    Onder Forum Resident

    This is not quite right. John's guitar does not change panning position on the released version. The main body of the song comes solely from Take 1. Take 9 count-in was edited onto the start. The song recieved handclaps, but it was just copy of Take 1 with the additional handclaps element (called Take 12).

    I've just given the session outtakes a listen and panning of guitars was changing throughout the recording process.
    Take 1: rhythm guitar on the vocals track
    Take 2-5: lead guitar on the vocals track
    Take 6-8: both guitars on the rhythm track (left)
    Take 9: both guitars left, lead guitar panned to the right for the solo

    (Takes 6-8 breakdown before the solo, but my guess is the same process (pan to the right for the solo) was set as with Take 9 which is complete).

    Ondra
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  24. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    I'm glad that you enjoy them. The MoFi pressings do have detail but the way they're EQ'd hurts my ears.
     
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  25. forthlin

    forthlin Forum Resident

    There are going to be systems where the MFSL discs are going to sound great. Those systems may not be the best, but if the music resonates with you, that's enough. Love the one you're with. ;)
     

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