Best Sounding digital Beatles singles comp?

RZangpo, as, and everyone else who's helping out,

Thanks very much. You all move way too fast for me to be very useful on this thread, but I will of course use your advice. This is an outstanding piece of detective work. Thanks Steve, for creating the environment to bring this sort of info out to those of us who have been hunting for it.

I got as far as downloading Audicity to try on my PC, when I saw CardinalFang recommended it in the past (thanks!). That's about it! There's this life thing that keeps happening to me while I'm making other plans. When I someday have something to report, I'll drop a line.

I think I'm going to search the auctions for a red Parlophone LMD to make my own needledrop. One like Steve's: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=44951

Frankly, I'd prefer to just go to the store and buy a truly well mastered Beatles catalog, instead of doing all this work. What a shame. I sometimes sigh over all this Dr E stuff that would be nice to have, but I really only want one consistent copy of the catalog, maybe with a rarities disk to cover the most interesting of the oddities...

Cheers all around,
Doug Piero Carey

 

Thanks for the kind words, guys. Really, all that's necessary to do this sort of thing is that one (a) be obsessive-compulsive, and (b) not sleep much.

My next step will be to compare volume 1 of my comp track-by-track with the EP box versions, and then with Dr. Ebbetts' needle drops. I will post the results here.

 

I know it's probably sonic and hi-fi heresy, but, where mono sources are concerned, I miss the simplistic receiver I had back in the 60s-70s that had a switch that let you listen to L or R, i.e., sent the L or R channel signal to both speakers. I always thought that was the best way to listen to mono, as it would tend to reduce noise, scratches, etc., by eliminating the scratches and clicks unique to the channel not selected to be played. You can achieve the same effect with Y-cables and so forth, but that little switch made it a whole lot easier.

The switch had other virtues as well. I remember I always used to listen to the original vinyl stereo version of the Stones' Got Live If You Want It on the R channel setting. (I know a lot of people hate that album, but I've always liked its crazy energy.) It was one of the worst recorded albums of all time -- one channel (the L, I think) had mainly Jagger's vocals, with only traces of the band. The R channel, on the other hand, had his vocals but also all the instruments. Listening to it in stereo was unpleasant because of the prominence of Jagger's vocals, so I always listened to it on the R setting, so that the voice and instruments were better balanced and the resulting de facto mono sound emanated identically from both speakers.

 

Doug, Dr. Ebbetts' needle drop of LMD (Ringo on drums) sounds very good.

 

BTW, I used Dr. Ebbetts' running order (reverse tracks 25 and 26 in post #47 above), and Gracenote recognized my comp as Ebbetts' UK Singles Collection. Very cool! Beats uploading the track names by hand.

 

I've just ordered what I believe are the 70s recut singles for PPM and LMD. It sounds like Steve likes that pressing of PPM. Does anyone know how that pressing of LMD sounds? That would have the Andy White version I assume.

 

Interesting thread, but where do you guys all find the time to do all this editing.

It usually takes me a good hour to do a decent compilation at least.

It must be me.

 

I've spent far more than an hour on this so far, believe me! Although the out-of-phase test takes less than a minute if you have a fast computer, so I may have spent less time on it than you imagine.

I'm taking a short break from it now. Duty calls, you know. I'll be back when I've compared the phase-corrected tracks from the singles box with the same tracks on the EP box.

 

I'm back! And here are the results of the CD singles box / EP box comparison.

Not counting the first two singles (which come from the wrong sources on both boxes), the CD singles box and the EP box have eight tracks in common. Numbering them using the running order in post #47 above, they are:

5. From Me To You
6. Thank You Girl
7. She Loves You
9. I Want To Hold Your Hand
11. Can't Buy Me Love
14. Things We Said Today
15. I Feel Fine
32. I Am The Walrus

I compared the first seven of these, which appear on Volume 1 of my comp. I burned the phase-corrected singles box tracks to CD-R, and on the same CD-R I also burned copies of the EP box tracks. (The singles and EP box tracks were ripped and burned in exactly the same way, to ensure an apples-to-apples comparison.) I followed each singles box track with the corresponding EP box track, so I could do quick comparisons.

The results were the same for each track. The singles box tracks sounded cold and grainy, with an emphasized top end. Either the treble is boosted, or the upper mids sucked out; I couldn't decide which. The EP box tracks sounded smoother and warmer, with an emphasis in the mid-bass, and less top than the singles box. They sound as if tubes were used somewhere in the mastering chain. On the other hand, they were definitely less detailed and dynamic, especially in the vocals. I could tell that they came from a later generation tape source.

My decision is to stick with the phase-corrected singles box tracks. They come from the original single masters, and sound like it, despite the mediocre sound quality. But this is a matter of taste. You may decide differently.

NEWS FLASH. After comparing I Feel Fine with the EP box version, I have changed my mind about which channel to use. It is obvious from listening to the other singles box tracks, and from comparing IFF to the the EP box version, that the L channel is indeed the more accurate one, in terms of fidelity to the mix. It also has less distortion than the R channel. My apologies to another side for doubting his judgment! The same reasoning tells me I probably picked the wrong channel in the case of Eleanor Rigby. The correct channel is L. So the revised list should include:

15. I Feel Fine - L
26. Eleanor Rigby - L

Next up: a comparison of the phase-corrected singles box tracks with Dr. Ebbetts' needle drops of the 45s.

 

You mean that's why they have different tonal balance? To me it sounded like different EQ. They do sound one generation down, that's for sure, but they also sound warmer, with more mid-bass and less treble, and an overall "tubey" sound. I assumed this meant they were remastered differently.

LATER. Ohhhh, I get it. You mean the changes were made in dubbing the EP masters, right? Not in remastering for CD.

 

Great work, Ron. No apologies necessary. IMO it's a tough call because each channel has some merits. Not just I Feel Fine, but in all cases. BTW, I made WAV files of all the left channels to listen to in my Ipod for a few days and see how I liked the sound, and in all the cases where I thought the track sounded poor you had picked the right channel instead.

 

Hey -- nice confirmation! Guess this means we both have golden ears.

 

Well, at the very least it means that we are hearing the same things. I Want to Hold Your Hand and This Boy sound terrible with only the left channel. Also Can't Buy Me Love and You Can't Do That don't sound so hot. The only thing I have different is I really like the left channel of She's a Woman. Maybe the right channel sounds good too, but I think the left channel sounds really pleasing to my ears.

 

I did She's A Woman again. Both channels sound good. The L channel has more top. Maybe comparison with Ebbetts' needle drops will tell us something.

LATER. On reflection I think the L channel must be the more accurate. So:

16. She's A Woman - L

 

RZangpo2, is there any chance you would consider updating your initial post with a revised listing when you make changes to your preferred channels, or add songs to the list? Might simplify things for a few folks, if they haven't been following this discussion from the beginning.

- M.

 

That's exactly what I plan to do. When I get to the end of this (seemingly endless) exercise, I will post my complete results in one place.

 

HI,

Just a thought.
May be I'm trying to escape the chore of burning yet another SINGLES CDR, or maybe I'm missing something, but here goes.

Since you seem to say that L/R tonality is different in most tracks, when you choose one over the other, don't you just emphasize one single aspect of the sound(see your notes about IFF)?

Isn't the addition of L+R what we are supposed to hear(out of phase or not), in other words, isn't this out of phase mono a bit like a stereo signal where both channels are needed to get the full sound.

When I used to listen to mono tracks with a stereo pick up , there WAS a L/R DIFFERENCE (due to the cartridge etc...), so aren't those out of phase (intentional or not) mono tracks just a recreation of what I just described??

Regards

DAN

 

Dan, the out of phase dual mono tracks are an error. If you combine them, either by summing the channels or just by listening to both channels (especially through headphones), you will get distracting phase effects.

As SH has said, these were mastered wrong. They should have been played back over a mono tape head, so that the resulting sound file would be mono (or dual mono, which amounts to the same thing on playback). There is no doubt in my mind that fixing this problem, i.e., eliminating the out of phase sound by correcting the tracks, is an improvement. However, as I said before, don't take my word for it. Try it and see.

As to picking one channel over another, you are right that there is no way to tell absolutely which is "right". In fact, where the channels are different, both may be "wrong" in terms of sounding different from the original mono master. However, as another side and I have noticed, one channel usually sounds better than the other -- less distortion, better dynamics, more detail, etc. This is the channel I've tried to pick.

There's no reason to play back a mono recording in stereo. We just do it because our systems are set up that way.

 

And not just that, but this is the exact method that Steve uses, picking the best channel to use as your mono track.

 

That, or summing L+R channels. Of course, you can't sum the channels when they've already been thrown out of phase, as they have here.

Of course, all this talk about L and R channels is the result of our living in a stereo world. When these tracks were recorded, they were mixed to just one channel, and meant to be played back the same way. There were no L and R channels on the original mono master, nor on the original mono 45s! The fact that there are different L and R channels on the CD singles box is a result of their having been mastered incorrectly, as SH has pointed out.

 

OK, I forgot it all started from a mastering error, which I find hard to accept from professional engineers, or was it just done in a rush?

Anyway thanks for all the time and and energy you've been putting into this thread. A great job!

DAN

 

You're welcome! As to the mastering error, we all find it "hard to accept". That's why Beatles fans are so furious about the state of the catalog. That's also the reason why there's a thriving cottage industry of pirate editions made from needle drops.

 

I've just read through this thread for the first time - thanks for everyone's hard work.

Now my question is, has anyone compared individual channels for the CDs of the first four LPs?

Chip

 

Chip, this is from post #24 in this thread:

No one has yet reported on the PPM, WTB, and BFS CDs. You'd be the first!