Bob Dylan – Bootleg Series Vol. 14: More Blood, More Tracks (2 Nov 2018)*

It is unfortunate that some people appear to think that Clinton and his work is either irrelevant or that all he deserves is a random kicking.

Clinton's monograph, "No One Else Could Play That Tune" is solely about the making of "Blood on The Tracks". He's listened to the set that is to be released on 02 November and seen the logs; he reproduces some of the logs as images in the book. He's conducted new interviews with people who were there for the recordings (and at least one person we didn't even know was there, in the control room). Those recordings will be released as "Bob Dylan: Bootleg Series Vol.14, More Blood More Tracks", the title of this thread, for goodness sake! It's so on topic that your request is bizarre. Is it better we should get back to the discussion about Joan Baez or NET versions of "Mr. Tambourine Man"...?

There are errors and incorrect assertions in all of Clinton's books; this one contains one enormous howler that I've seen so far, for example. It isn't plugging or giving publicity to the book to discuss its contents or the merits or failings of it, but it is most certainly relevant. What isn't relevant to this public thread, or any other public thread for that matter, is people lashing out randomly at another human being. It's not just irrelevant; it's offensive.

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Better to stay here with it, @RayS . Let's discuss the book here. If Joan Baez and NET versions of "Mr. Tambourine Man" are relevant to MBMT then a book about MBMT is relevant. Unless I'm missing something...

 

It's called a " personal attack" and is not generally tolerated here in SH music forums.

 

To quote Leonard, who unfortunately is not still here, “I do not care who takes this bloody hill”. Obviously I find it relevant, because it obviously IS, but this thread should be much more fun than it is right now, too.

 

Or, to quote Thea (a devotee of Leonard) who is still here:-

You can cut that stem
But wild flowers grow again
All you can do is just tend to them
And know that you tried

 

It's sad there apparently is a need to have an official name for it!

Whoever it is, I wish they'd cut out quick
When they will, I can only guess.

 

Nothing. I was just contrasting it to the response to mentions of the book, or more specifically its author. There was no Pavlovian response to the article.

 

We don't have the box yet. This Heylin fellow has heard it and written about it. How that doesn't translate to tasty information is beyond me!

Meanwhile, a new lyric video.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=331149297436901

 

Can some oneconfirm/clarify this: I take the above quote, from the Sony website, to mean that the single disc will not necessarily be composed of the exact same takes used on the famed vinyl test pressing of BOTT-NY? (I'm not talking about the speeds, which I understand will be "corrected.) That is unfortunate, in my view, as the NY vinyl test pressing , which I own in a very good needle drop, has become as drilled into my brain as the officially released version. Moreover, it expressed Dylan's intent at that time, as opposed to what somebody at Sony found the "most emotionally resonant" takes.

*Apologies, as I strongly suspect this has been discussed, but I could not find it among the 288 pages so far -- but I tried!

 

Not just overstated, but hyperbolic too, eh? Colour me superfluous!

I don't get why you are so aggressive. Whatever, you are wrong and the insults you throw at me just dig you deeper.

What I meant - and I'm sure you realise this - was that all he can do is raw facts, he has no worthwhile critical perspectives and he cannot write.

 

I'm not lashing out, randomly or otherwise. I have long, weary experience of Heylin's work. I think he has done a lot of useful research, but he's an unpleasant, crass boor whose association with Dylan sullies the artist.

He's a critic and thus a valid subject for criticism. His ridiculous second guessing of Dylan's decisions and work is a valid target for ridicule.

 

Correct. The new 1CD/2LP set only shares two basic takes (“Lily, Rosemary and The Jack of Hearts” & “Idiot Wind”) with the test pressing (and in the case of “Idiot Wind” it’s presented without the organ overdub—you can hear it both ways on the 6CD version). What’s more, these are all new mixes and based on what we’ve heard so far they are all likely to sound noticeably different from what we’re familiar with from the test pressing.

 

I plan to buy John Howells' new book about Dylan's recordings, to be published in January. It's a hardcopy elaboration of his website, I gather. There is a chapter on Blood On the Tracks.

 

Heylin is not the only one guilty of second guessing Dylan's intentions and decisions. We all do it at one time or another, but Heylin takes it to extremes, doesn't he. It is arrogant and unfair of us. I try not to do it but to appreciate what Dylan gives us instead, because what he gives to us is profoundly generous. I'm reminded of Francis Ford Coppola's remark on the set of The Godfather, "There isn't a person employed on this film who doesn't think he could direct it better than me." But nobody did, and nobody could have.

 

I think the worst choice Bob ever made with his music was throwing Abandoned Love off of Desire. I wonder what Heylin thinks about that.

 

I guess if I want to read about the book I'll just buy it? But that's ok, I'll avoid the thread and wait for the set to come out on Nov. 2 and discover it all without Mr. Heylin's help.

 

I will not be the test pressing takes. But that makes sense as half of the test presssing takes are also on the official release. And, if this makes you feel any better, not releasing the test pressing as is was in fact “Dylan’s intent at the time.” He rejected and remade half of the songs.

 

So, I think I have it straight now:

Expecting Rain is where I go for negativity and SHF is where I come for personal attacks?

 

Maybe I can help revitalise your enthusiasm with some insightful sleuthing and knowledgeable reporting of howlers and facts. I hope it is not interpreted as either negative or as a personal attack on anyone - it is just setting the record straight for those who are interested in such things (like me and my colleagues on the sub-committee of ICES)....

On page 121 of Clinton's monograph he states, "The murky history of the album on vinyl goes all the way back to September 25th, 1974, and what purports to be an A&R acetate of the final New York album. The two labels to this (presumably double-sided) acetate were first reproduced by Michael Krogagaard in Master of the Tracks, and on the face of it appear to be genuine."

He then goes on to say that the sequence on the labels of this acetate was exactly the same as the released album, unlike two "pukka" A&R acetates which turned up later, dated 30 September and 08 October. This is the image from MK's book he is talking about. Note the sequence on the labels, particularly Side 2, and refresh your memory, if necessary, of the final BOTT track sequence:-



Elaborating further, he says that because the later acetates have a different sequence to the final album, unlike (apparently) the 9/25/74 acetate depicted above, and because "two" of the songs are mis-titled and there are no timings on the label and no S-# on the label, the 9/25/74 acetate must be fake. The clincher for him is that "...if such an acetate was cut on the 25th, the Idiot Wind (from the session on the 19th) would have been without the organ overdub, and no such recording has ever circulated."

As our friend, @Mbd77 has already pointed out, the "Idiot Wind" in question, without the organ overdub, was circulating some years ago and until recently was available to view on Y**T**e, albeit with the stereo imaging reversed. And, as it seems from his monograph Clinton hasn't seen or heard the acetate, only those fuzzy images in MK's book, I can assure him and everyone here that it doesn't contain the final album sequence (as is obvious from the labels), the "Idiot Wind" on it does not have the organ overdub and it is a genuine A&R acetate cut on 25 September, 1974, and "circulating" ever since. It is a very crackly acetate, by the way; acetates were not made to last...



We, at ICES HQ, call it The First Acetate. Our discussions on the three songs that were later edited and/or embellished can be found on previous pages of this thread - I can't remember the page numbers and I don't keep handy files of my posts (Me? Organised? Are you kidding?) so I can't reproduce those discussions right here.

Clinton's idea of a "pukka" acetate is this one. He likes it because it doesn't have the same sequence as the final LP and probably he's heard it, with the "Idiot Wind" organ overdub. We call this The Second Acetate. It also is genuine.




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I'm a bit confused. "Idiot Wind": the version on Bootleg 1-3 mentions an organ but the take is clearly without it. But that isn't the take from the acetate?

It makes sense if it isn't because the version I've heard with an organ overdub (I believe from the Genuine Bootleg Series 3CD boot) sounds like a different take to me.

I guess all will be revealed and better understood once MBMTs is released. Though the advance info on it appears to not know that an organ-free mix was released on that first Bootleg Series release.

 

Try this:-

Bob Dylan – Bootleg Series Vol. 14: More Blood, More Tracks (2 Nov 2018)*

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Idiot Wind on BS1-3 is a DIFFETENT TAKE which does not feature an organ overdub.

The GBS/New York Sessions etc...bootleg features the proposed New York album version complete with organ overdub.

The same version as above (the proposed New York album version) also circulates without the organ overdub.

So, currently, as of today, TWO takes are available:

1. The Bootleg Series 1-3 outtake.
2. The New York Sessions version that was intended for the album, which is only available via bootleg.

There are TWO versions of the New York Sessions bootleg take:

1. With organ overdub
2. Without organ overdub

So, in total TWO takes, but one of those two takes has two different versions - one with organ, one without.

So you, currently, can hear THREE versions of Idiot Wind from New York: two different takes, with one of those takes available in two different forms: with organ and without organ.

That’s it.

The liner notes to BS1-3 where John Bauldie mentions a ‘spooky organ’ are either due to a mistake in his part, where he assumed it would be that take or that it was pulled from the set and replaced with this other outtake version. (See the post above by Percy Song) The latter is more likely as JB would have presumably been given an opportunity to hear the set at more that one time (?) while writing his liner notes, but likewise it could be a lapse of memory on his part where he refers back to the familiar bootleg if he was writing the notes some time after being granted a preview listening session after various changes/substitutions were made to the set.

 

Percy and Mbd -- many thanks! to you and to all the hearty souls who pore over this stuff and unravel the mysteries. the internet can be a very, very fine fellow. when it isn't destroying the music business and the arts in general. and relationships on social media. and... well, I really wish this damn set was coming out this next Friday and not the one after.

 

@ Mbd77, re John Bauldie's BS1-3 booklet notes:

On 12 June 1993, John flew over to Novegro, Milan, specifically to speak to a group of Italian Bob-fans about his contribution to BS1-3. His talk was filmed. Here's part of a review of that film, which answers questions about his "mistakes" and the reasons why they occurred:

Late in 1990, John was asked by Jeff Rosen to pen notes on each of the 75 songs to be included in the then-forthcoming Bootleg Series 1-4. Yes, the original plan was for a 4CD set - John tells here the full story from first contact (while he was attending the 1990 Q Awards in the drunken company of Bill Wyman) through to the set's eventual release the following year. We hear how the decision to bring forward the release date left him with a ridiculously short deadline; also the wry tale of the cloak and dagger delivery of a cassette of unreleased songs that he needed to hear before commenting on. The bearer ("Bob's English accountant") told him he could listen to it as many times as he liked as long as it didn't take more than an hour - and it was a 90 minute tape! We hear that Sign On The Cross was one of the tracks initially pencilled in for release, as was (equally mouth-watering) an out-take of You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go. There are a few mistakes in his notes, he says, made not through carelessness or error but because some of the tracks he was given to listen to were later replaced by different takes, as in Train To Cry (slow version / fast version), I'll Keep It With Mine (maracas / no maracas) and Idiot Wind. Concerning the latter, his notes mention the track's "spooky" organ which all those previously familiar with the BOTT outs can surely call to mind like that. When BS1-3 emerged I remember mentally cussing Sony for having had the gall to remove it, just as I bemoaned their left-field acoustic over electric McTell decision - though in each case, I now believe, time has proven them right. Another thing about the Idiot Wind out-take as it originally circulated - all the old boots it was on carried the same cut that (because of a crucial needle-skip) had a line missing and for years, until BS1-3, I wondered what it was. Finally, Bob sang, it just struck me kinda funny. Almost worth the wait.

 

I think Bjorner etc just have their dates backwards for Idiot Wind.

BS1-3 version is take 6 from the 16th.

Test Pressing version is take 4 from the 19th (with organ overdub).

Not vice-versa.

The official website notes for More Blood accurately identify the test pressing take, but inaccurately claim the BS1-3 take is the same one.