Calling Dr John experts...

I got a weird Dr John CD.. I assumed it would be another gray label issue of his 60s stuff but it sounds very 1974 to me.... somewhere I read it might be the "Nashville Sessions"...anyways its funky as all else and sounds of a period with In the Right Place/Bonnaroo (My favorite time)...its on DBK Works DBK 119 and the sound quality is really good although they at times sound like demos or run throughs...like I said very funky.. I can't say its the Meters with him although it would not be too surprising...the song listing is

1. In the Night
2. A Quitter Never Wins
3. Danger Zone
4. Whichever Way the WInd Blows
5. Helpin' Hand
6. What Goes Around (Comes Around)
7. Mean Cheatin' Woman
8. Shoo Ra
9. Bald Headed
10. Women is the Root of all Evil
11. Scrubbin'
12. Qualified
13. Tipitina
14. Just Like a Mirror
15. Mama Roux


I looked all over the internet with no real success... Anybody know what this is??? Thanks in advance!

 

maybe the stuff he recorded with that crazy cajun guy way back in the day. or maybe a comp.

 

It's a bumch of demo sessions from the mid 70s that have been released in a million forms. Oddly, in some of these releases, the greay-area tracks are missed up with released songs from different albums, as on the one you have...Qualified, Quitter Never Wins and Mama Roux are all legit album tracks (from Right PLace, Bonnarroo and Gris Gris respectively).

Odd thing is, a lot of the grey-area stuff is really great, and there's a lot of especially great songs, like "Crawfish Soiree", that aren't on your album. . Here's a good cheap version: http://www.amazon.com/New-Orleans-Zu-Man/dp/B000062W8A/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1414204893&sr=1-5&keywords=dr john zu zu man

And here's a recent version that has all of it: http://www.amazon.com/New-Orleans-Z...=1414204893&sr=1-5&keywords=dr+john+zu+zu+man

 

thanks bRETT!

yeah its really good stuff....i did think some of them seemed like the album tracks..

 

This session(s) is quite a mess and info on it will probably never be straightened out or verified. Plus, no record label has ever tried to put out a "definitive" version of this session(s) that includes all the songs, so it's really hard to figure out which albums to pick up. I don't know where the best sound is for these. Some of the music is really iffy, but some of it is quite good in places. My favorite is "Just Like a Mirror"...a great little straight-ahead country track showing a side to Dr. John that he never really showed on his official album-releases. I also like "The Time Had Come"--it has a "Louisiana 1927" vibe to it.

My belief is that these recordings came from 1969 or 1970...as somebody that listens to an obscene amount of Dr. John, his vocals have always sounded to me almost exactly the same as they do on Remedies (1970) and maybe, at times, Babylon (1969) , but especially Remedies. His tone and pronunciation simply sound the same as most of that album. Not scientific, I know, but if you drown yourself in Dr. John albums from Gris-Gris through Desitively Bonnaroo/Hollywood be Thy Name you'll get a real feel for his vocal changes during the stretch of years from which these could have come.

Dr. John has only mentioned these briefly, stating in his autobiography that, after he got famous, they were released by Heuy Meaux. He also mentioned that the session players weren't very good. That probably places them pre-Dr. John's Gumbo (1972), although he didn't get really famous until In the Right Place a year later, but the demo tracks just don't match his Gumbo or post-Gumbo voice. Thus, I'd place them at 1969 at the earliest, 1971 at the latest. Plus, it'd be strange for him to be doing "Tipitina" again after he had already officially released it to great acclaim on Gumbo...possible, but strange. And he definitely wouldn't have recorded an inferior variation of "I've Been Hoodood" (see below) after the official version was released in 1973, so even outside of the distinctive voice, I've never bought the 1974 date that's been thrown around at times. It's been established that these perhaps came from sessions held at different times, but the voice sounds pretty consistent throughout and the evidence stacks up to me. Sometimes he'll mention in interviews that it's a problem that he has more bootlegs on the market than he does actual albums, but that's all he ever really says about them.

The album that is linked in the above post from Amazon is probably a decent one to get as it has many of the known tracks, but it is missing some:

-Helping Hand: sometimes listed as "Helpin' Hand" or "What Goes Around (Comes Around)." However, it's different from the Desitively Bonnaroo and the Remedies version...the fact that these comps often include the Desitively track definitely confounds the situation
-Danger Zone: also known as "Which Way" and contains some lyrics that later showed up on "Snake Eyes" from City Lights
-Cat and Mouse Game (sometimes listed as "Whichever Way the Wind Blows")
-Shoo Ra
-Woman is the Root of All Evil
-The Grass Looks Greener Yonder: Sometimes listed as "Grass is Greener" and maybe some other variations. Like "New Orleans" and "Did She Mention My Name," this one doesn't have Dr. John singing so it's hard to verify his level of involvement, but he's probably involved on some level production-wise or backing-band-wise. "New Orleans," "Did She Mention," and "Grass" may actually be Ronnie Barron, which means there is a high probability the Dr. was involved, but also a high probability that these come from different sessions than the other songs.
-Della, Pt 1: This one hasn't appeared on a lot of the comps, so it makes me very suspicious. It's a guitar instrumental, and it more or less sounds like his style on guitar, but no way to know for sure.
-Della, Pt 2: Same as above, except it's a piano-based instrumental song instead of guitar-based. Sounds just like him, but when it comes to instrumentals you can't really know for sure.

Then there are the tunes only available on The Crazy Cajun Recordings, re-released as Hoodoo: The Collection about 10 years later with the exact same tracklist:

-Shining as Hard as I Can (Dying in the Forest)
-Woman (significantly overdubbed version of "Mean Cheatin' Woman"...usually I'm a purist but I do like this version)
-You Said It
-Somebody Trying to Hoodoo Me (early version of I've Been Hoodood...lots of similar lyrics and theme but not the same song)
-Don't Want No Monkey in My Business
-Chicky Wow Wow
-I Got Lonesome-itis
-Doghouse Blues

And just so they'll all be listed in this post, here are all the other known grey-market tracks (all found on the Amazon link in the above post).

-In The Night
-Mean Cheatin' Woman
-Shoo Ra
-Bald Headed
-Just Like a Mirror
-She's Just a Square
-Zu Zu Man
-One Night Late (listed as "Flight #5" on Crazy Cajun, guitar instrumental only)
-Did She Mention My Name (not Dr. John singing...possibly Ronnie Barron, Dr. John probably had some involvement in the backing band or as a producer)
-New Orleans (not Dr. John singing...possibly Ronnie Barron, Dr. John probably had some involvement in the backing band or as a producer)
-The Time Had Come
-Loser for You Baby
-The Ear is on Strike
-A Little Closer to My Home
-I Pulled the Covers Off You Two Lovers
-Go Ahead On
-Bring Your Love (alternately known as Crawfish Soiree, Bring Your Own, Bring Your Own Along)
-Make Your Own

Finally, if you see the song "Trader John" on any of these grey-market albums, just note that it is definitely not Dr. John singing, but rather a horrible imitation. He might be involved in the track somehow (guitar maybe?), and it's not far from his style, but somebody definitely did a very poor job of trying to pull one over on us on that track.

So, that leaves 27 non-Crazy Cajun tracks, counting the 2 "Della"s and even "Trader John," and 8 Crazy Cajun-only tracks. I wish I could say I knew of one place, or even just 2 places, to get it all. I've handled this by purchasing What Goes Around (Comes Around) and I Pulled the Cover Off You Two Lovers...they have decent sound compared to a couple other grey-market comps I've heard, although I don't know if they have the best, or even close to it. Finally, I purchased The Crazy Cajun Recordings for those 8 exclusive tracks, plus New Orleans Man for the 3 dubious tracks ("Della, Pt 1," "Della, Pt 2," and even "Trader John") since I'm a completest. Someday, I'll get around to editing out all the legit In the Right Place and Desitively Bonnaroo tracks and making one 2 CD comp using these 4 albums.

Hope this helps! Any additions or corrections to this post are welcome.

 

right, the crazy cajun stuff has been around for many many years. in all types of different type of albums, tho i dont think they were bootlegs, just done prior to him signing with the major label.
i love the good doctor, and tho gris gris gets a lot of love, remedies and babylon for some reason dont, tho they are super records, some of my personal mac records.
i once asked mac about this but i couldnt understand his answer.

seen him live many times. probably my favorite was when he was going thru a low ebb in the mid, eighties, just like so many other greats did. he was playing a zoo, in mid july with a temp close to 100 degrees in the shade. i get there first thing i spy is the horn section soundchecking on state. they kinda looked familiar. went up closer and i recognized them a so locals who id a gig at a bar downtown. i hollered up to one of them and asked them if they were opening for the dr, and he said no we are his band for this gig. have you reheared i asked? yes this morning.
o o, i thought to myself.
dr comes one with this night tripper outfit, looking he was going to melt in the heat. about 200 people there eating hot dogs. band is totally out of tune, the dr is getting frustrated. one guy sitting in front of me keeps hollerin requests which the dr promptly ignores, to busy trying to figure out what song his backing musicians are playing.

the guy doesnt give up. after being ignored, he walk right up to the front of the stage and tells the dr: didnt you hear my requests. mac, stops, gets up get his mojo stick and walk to the front of the stage and tells the guy: "yes ive been hearing you but i dont do private gigs". guy wilted.
the dr went to the front of the stage and says: 'since this gig is officially over, can somone find a gun and shoot this piano". with that he exited to no applause. great gig.

 

Yes, you are correct, they are not technically "bootlegs"...I was using that term loosely since Dr. John had no say in their release and they can seemingly be put out by any fly-by-night company as often as they want. I should have used "grey-market" throughout my post. And great story about the Doc at the zoo!

Looks like you may be correct about these sessions coming prior to him signing with Atco (as opposed to my Remedies-era theory). Just looked back at his autobiography and he said it comes from demos he had done for a few artists when he was producing, songwriting, and arranging, which would have been pre-Gris-Gris. They started coming out after Iko Iko hit the Top 40 in 1972. His corrupt ex-manager asked if he'd like to help clean up the tapes, but when Dr. John declined, the material came out anyway. Then other unknown people started jumping on the bandwagon and releasing some jam session tapes from the early/mid-sixties. Heuy Meaux then joined club with his own records of demos from when Dr. John had worked as a producer and arranger for him . So these definitely come from several different sources. I'd quote the whole passage, but it' a full page and I don't want to encroach on any copyrights. Also of note is that he likes "Just a Square from Delaware" and the band that played on it, saying it sounds like a "halfway like a legitimate record."

Also, now that I listen to it again for the first time in awhile, I had forgotten that the track "Zu Zu Man" is definitely not Dr. John singing, but another bad imitation, so add that to the same category as "Trader John."

 

I had a chance to hang with the Dr once but ultimately passed. A friend called me that he was meeting with the Dr before a show, but that he had to take a mojo with him, did i know where to find one.
I said no, but you can get a tea bag and add some pepper and mess it up a bit. He said it had to be some sort of jawbone, so I said ill see you after the show. some dudes i know knew him back in the day when he was close with jerry wexler, before they became bitter enemies. when it comes to legends, they dont come no more legendary than mac.

I dont think these are grey market either, somewhere along the way, he signed some papers, making these items legit. They adorned the cut out bins back in the day regularly, along with his sun moon and herbs album, which i like quite a bit by the way.
i broke up with a girl once because she said dr john was a black dude. told her no, she insisted because she knew best. this after insisting bruce springsteen was jewish. it was like a music forum before music forums.
quit her. good thing.

 

Great posts, goombay and JohnGris...I've always loved these sessions and itrs frustrating that nobody has ever really documented them. I would agree that "The Time Had Come" is a brilliant song, definitely a Randy Newman homage.

One more complication in terms of dating them is that the keyboard sounds tend to be very different than those on his proper records. "Crawfish Soiree" has either a synth or a clavinet on it, which I don't think the Doctor played much until much later...and nobody was playing much clavinet before "Superstition."

I also have the Springboard album "Zu Zu Man" which has the notoriouis "Trader John" song mentioned above, plus another impersonated vocal on a song called "Christmas in New Orleans." Apparently he did have something to do with the backing tracks though. And you gotta love it that someone in 1972 was bothering to impersonate him! So add "Christmas in New Orleans" to the list of tracks...the Springboard album also has an instrumental version, which was probably the original track, probably not intended to be a Christmas song.

 

Here's the impersonated track, pretty amusing. The backing is quite funky so I wouldn't be surprised if they took a legit tape and overdubbed some joker on to it:

 

Not sure about this one though. It's at least a much better imitation than the above. The spoken bits are highly suspect though.

 

Great thread.

 

thats probably what it is, tracks with him playing with someone imitating him over dubbed. nobody was going to to the trouble to doing an imitation of him, unless he had a hit. but the second sounds like it could be him.
his book is one of my favorite reads. does anyone remember the album he did called Television? great record. he also wrote some great stuff with doc pomus.
the 80s were a brutal time for him i used to seem him do solo shows in small bars. 80s was a terrible time for good music. record companies wanted you to f up you music with silly sounding apparatuses, ruining many a record.

 

Definitely not him. The non-spoken parts do make a much better imitation than Trader John and it almost sounds like there is an actual snippet of the Dr. John grumbling in there 1:22-1:23. That little spot is either him or a really good imitation, but the rest of it...no way. Better but still not even close. Pronunciation and timber are just off. Wish I could offer proof, but it's just my ears which have put in a lot of hours with his recordings through the years.

In his autobiography, he does claim that he was part of the session and that it's from the mid-60s. He writes that an unknown operator had a band lay down overdubs on some "jingle and jam" sessions he did in the early to mid-60s, and that's what they released on Zu Zu Man the original album, along with the bad imitation. He's on those tracks somewhere, but it's not clear where.

Here's the original Zu Zu Man from discogs: http://www.discogs.com/Dr-John-Zu-Zu-Man/release/724072.

I've done a little research and "Della (Part 1)" from the New Orleans Man double CD is the same track as "X Mas in New Orleans (instrumental)." I've never seen or heard the non-instrumental version in the CD era, though.

 

You're probably correct that, with his con-job of an ex-manager, and with him being in a perpetual junkie haze which allowed him to be conned (multiple times), he did sign something which gave him no legal right to go after whoever releases them. Maybe I'm using "grey-market" wrong, but I'm just trying to connote that these should be viewed differently than all of his official album releases. The artist himself didn't want these out. Almost every big artist has sessions like this, that seemingly all the iffy labels put out again and again to try to trick some people into thinking they're buying official canon. I've always referred to that as "grey market"-- there may be some legal reason they're legit, but they're still questionable releases overall.

Again, I may be using it wrong, but we're in agreement on everything except maybe semantics.

Strange about the ex-girlfriend and her being so focused on race/religion. Springsteen's drummer is Jewish, but that's about the closest she gets to winning that argument. Jewish law says Judaism comes from the mother, but maybe I haven't studied it closely enough and it also comes from the drummer.

 

Is "Zu Zu Man" the same version as the 1966 A&M single?

 

i dont know if they are the same song but they are not the same recording.

 

Television is one of my favs. Hugely underrated fonk album. Everybody should hear his version of "Thank you (Falletin Me be Mice Elf Again)"...one of the best things he's ever done. I'm a die-hard Sly fan and I actually prefer Dr. John's version. "Limbo," "Television" (song), and "Shut D Fonk Up" (duet with Anthony Keidis) have always been favs for me, as well.

There is a special quality to the stuff he wrote with Doc Pomus which is real special. Their styles gelled well. He recorded some of it himself through the years (City Lights and Tango Palace contain about half Pomus/Rebennack contributions), but a lot of his best Doc Pomus stuff ended up being recorded by other people. Would love for him to put out an album with just stuff he wrote with Pomus and hasn't put down himself yet. I bet he's got an album's worth of unrecorded-by-anybody Pomus/Rebennack compositions, which would be incredible. "Your Average Kind of Guy" may be my favorite of theirs that he recorded.

80s were a hard time for music, indeed, but I'm sure some of his problems were beyond just industry issues. I think he spent another stint in jail for drugs at some point, but he got clean in 1989 or 1990 and his recordings hit a new peak from there starting with "In a Sentimental Mood." Not my favorite of his, but it's high quality and it definitely put him on the right trajectory, allowing him to put out his magnum opus 3 years later.

He's got a few non-album tunes from the 80s where you can see him trying to fit in with the synth pop-based trends, some of them surprisingly good ("Jet Set" and the work he did with Per Cussion on Beatwave), and some not so good ("New Looks" from Nation Lampoon's European Vacation, not available on any official CD release but almost the whole song was played in the movie). He did a lot of bare-bones roots music in the 80s, with the 2 Clean Cuts albums, lots of solo-piano live work, and other things like the Dixieland-based Chris Barber projects/tours, and a series of albums where he was part of Hank Crawford's band. All of that back-to-basics stuff saved the era for him as far as recorded output, but you can definitely tell he was a bit lost direction-wise after how diverse and inspired the rest of his career was up until that point (and would be thereafter).

 

Just listened to this on Youtube. Not the same song, but interesting that this has production and songwriting credits for Mac on the front label. Plus, Charles Underwood, whose also listed as a producer, is mentioned in Dr. John's book as one of the people that conspired to put out the first batch of demos even though he asked them not to. So, the sessions for this and the Dr. John demo sessions could be related, but they're different songs nonetheless. Thanks for sharing!

 

i read somewhere that dr john has a TRUNKFULL of Doc Pomus co writes. if im right, i think they co wrote that There Must be a Better World song that was a big hit for BB King.
the above Zu Zu Man was co written with the late great Jesse Hill so maybe there is a version by him somewhere.

 

This thread is a godsend among the recent flood of irrelevant "rank this, pick your favorite" threads. You guys are pure well informed, documented Night Tripper bliss.
Since you guys are real experts, let me share with you my favorite Mac album (and please comment)
-Gris Gris
-Right Place,wrong time
-Gumbo
-Going back to New Orleans
Cheers

 

all are classics. but you left out desetively bonnaroo.
gris gris was a hugely influential album among the musical cognoscenti back in the day, it seemed everybody was listening to it, tho sales were low
right place was his commercial breakthrough. excellent record.
gumbo, a new orleans rock and roll classic. should have sold a billion copies but sold none
going back to new orleans, his later era masterpiece


he did some very interesting side projects including the record with john hammond jr and michael bloomfield, and that bluesiana stuff, which i havent heard in many years but will soon. and of course
RCO Allstars.

and, he played i think guitar, his original instrument on that last great Fess album, Crawfish Fiesta.

 

I think of the 1966 "Zu Zu Man" single as the beginning of his "Night Tripper" period. Ending with "Sun, Moon...", which is my current fave.

I read that "Sun, Moon..." was intended to be a triple LP but the tapes were lost. The eventual release is a re-recording, and all that he be bothered to do at that point was a single disc. Any truth to that?

 

My own reasoning is if Dr. John's name is on it, it is worth listening to. Most of his work is excellent.

 

And the plot thickens: "Della" from the Zu Zu Man album is not an instrumental, but this:


Clearly a mid-60s New Orleans R&B track which Dr. John likely had something to do with-- maybe Ronnie Barron singing?

And speaking of his '80s output, I have a decent single called "Sweet Rider" on RCA. He also did the theme for "Mixed Nuts" which wasn't bad.