Careers 'Damaged' by Woodstock

A while back, someone on here suggested that John Sebastian was widely ridiculed for his 'Aquarian' comments during his set (as preserved on the album release) and that he was never taken seriously again. This surprised me, as he scored an American number one hit only five or so years later.

Pete Townshend feels that his (literally) booting Abbie Hoffman off the stage diminished Hoffman in the eyes of the counter-culture and was the beginning of his personal (and professional) decline.

Janis Joplin's performance was considered disappointing but I don't think it hurt her too much.

Anyone else to whom Woodstock did more harm than good?

 

Can't name anyone yet, I understand Iron Butterfly never made it but was asked as well as Tommy James and the Shondells.
Where as iron butterfly was said to have disappeared.

 

From Joe Boyd's White Bicycles, about the Incredible String Band's Woodstock appearance:

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Album sales and tour income, meanwhile, continued to grow. Next up was the Woodstock Festival where they–along with Joan Baez and John Sebastian–were topping the bill on Friday night. That morning in New York, reports started coming in about the crowds thronging to the site. By the time we landed at Monticello airport, the access roads had turned into parking lots. They used an old army helicopter with a permanently open door to take us to the site, the six of us (including Walter Gundy, the tour manager) strapped in, staring down hundreds of feet at a Catskill countryside filled with traffic jams, tents and small colourful armies marching across the fields. When we reached the site, it was almost too much to take in: a city had formed around the stage. As we banked and turned over the sea of people, the small landing strip behind the stage appeared to be the only unpopulated area for miles around.

At sunset, candles and small fires appeared in the crowd and torches were lit along the top of the hill. It seemed a sight from a distant century (a past one, let’s hope). The first raindrops started to fall while Baez was onstage. As at Newport four years before, there was a small tarpaulin strung between pole keeping no more than a fraction of the stage dry. The band’s days as an acoustic duo were long past. Rose’s bass needed an amp, Mike played electric guitar on several important songs, and oriental instruments were amplified through pick-up microphones. We huddled with our friend John Morris, one of the festival producers, and talked about what to do if it didn’t clear up.

I am generally immune to regret, but I find it painful to write about what happened next. As the rain came down more heavily, Morris offered us a spot the following afternoon. Faced with the prospect of radically altering their set and trying to play through the rain, and with reports of clearing weather to the west, the group opted to stay over then race to New York, where we had a gig the next night. To my eternal chagrin, and against my instincts, I went along with the plan. We were vaguely aware of the cameras and the recording truck parked beside the stage, but we couldn’t know that Melanie would step into our spot, revelling in the downpour and transforming herself into a star. Nor could we know what Saturday would be like.

There was no way off the site that night (the helicopters stopped flying at dusk), so the six of us slept in a cramped tent with John Sebastian, Melanie and her boyfriend. At dawn, we were ’coptered out to a motel in Monticello to wash and get a few hours’ sleep in a real bed. When we returned and looked out at the crowd, our hearts sank. It was sunny all right; the hillsides were baking in the heat. The sylvan beauty of the hippy crowd the day before had changed beyond recognition; now it looked like a battle zone. Everyone was caked in mud, many dancing crazily in the dust, out of their heads. Following the thunderous boogie of Canned Heat, the ISB were the last thing anyone wanted to hear. The group were exhausted and the set fell flat.

Having given up trying to collect ticket money, the organizers had run out of cash, so dozens scrambled for a few seats on the last ’copter flight before the charter company took their unpaid bills back to Albany. Licorice was pushed off, Robin got off to stay with her and Walter got off to look after them. Somehow, they made it out with a driver who knew a dirt track through the woods and we got to New York just in time to go onstage. We knew we had blown it: the extent of the error became clear in the months to come as the Woodstock film reached every small town in America and the double album soared to the top of the charts. Had they played in the rain that night, would they have made the cut in the film and on the record? I had nightmares about the might-have-beens: the ISB gloriously recapturing the acoustic spontaneity of their early years, their songs and voices perfect for that magical first night, their careers transformed by the exposure. It was a phenomenon and, like that last helicopter, we had failed to hold on to our seats on board.

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My understanding is they got too demanding, with their manager expecting them to be treated like royalty on their arrival, and the organizers told them at the last minute to forget it. (There was, of course, no way to give any of the acts any real creature comforts even if they'd had the budget for it.) I don't think I'd say Woodstock damaged Iron Butterfly's career, though, except inasmuch as it was an example of poor management and expecting to be treated like Elvis when you've had one hit record.

Perhaps that person meant "never taken seriously again by the counterculture?" Since that later #1 hit of his was the theme song from a TV show - about as establishment as you can get - that would still be consistent with the Woodstock crowd never wanting to bother with him again.

 

It's possible that the ISB may have received a lot more exposure from the Woodstock Festival, but they never really reached into say the status of CSN who were well on their way even before the Woodstock movie and record were released. I always considered the ISB as a trippy folk group with a select fan base. I think Joe Boyd had larger expectations then they were able to ever deliver. I like their 5000 Spirits record, but thought the rest of their catalog was just so-so. Contrary to them, the band "Spirit" was also asked to play and declined. I think it would have been a huge boost for them, but that's just my opinion. There were a lot of great performances filmed that never made it into the original movie. For Joe Boyd to lament of the experience of the ISB, I think there was a lot of fretting about nothing that would have ever panned out in the first place. Woodstock had its winners and losers.

 

Incredible String Band? It wasn't going to happen. No way, no how. They got to play there, they should be happy.

 

I would have said their music was wrong in just about every conceivable way for the nature of the event. Then again....Ravi Shankar blew Monterey apart two years earlier, so what do I know?

 

There were several other groups that fit in that same category as well, but hey! It was the 1960's. Just about everything seemed valid back then.

 

Sha Na Na, anyone? Their appearance had the opposite effect of this thread's premise.

 

No: Townshend's booting Hoffman off the stage damaged HOFFMAN.

 

I read somewhere The Band's performance was below par. During that period they were living nearby, and had expected to be back home before dinner. Turned out quite different of course.

And what about the explanation why The Doors didn't perform. Robbie Krieger: “We never played at Woodstock because we were stupid and turned it down".

I'm also surprised Creedence didn't appear in the film or on the triple album, they were at that moment among the hottest bands in the hemisphere. I actually only learned many years later they even played at Woodstock. Must've been a management/record company decision not to include them, it surely couldn't have been the quality of the show, which was excellent:




And while we're at it, at least as interesting are the artists who enjoyed such an enormous popularity boost from their Woodstock performance that in the end it became something like an albatross around their neck. I'm thinking about acts like Ten Years After and Melanie, heck even Crosby, Stills & Nash, who personified so much the 'Woodstock generation', that as soon as that whole period was over they immediately were deemed old-hat and out of date.

 

It was John Fogerty's call. He made all the decisions pertaining to CCR's music and their business dealings.

 

I believe their manager, Albert Grossman was behind why they weren't in the film, he was also Janis Joplin's manager too.
Grossman, would let The Band's version of The Weight be in The Easy Ridet OST. So we goe Smith instead.

Also, food for thought, Warner Brothers / Atlantic Records were footing the bill for the film and soundtrack. It would be easier to get the rights to Warner / Atlantic acts, than say The Band with Capitol and Janis with Columbia. But some of the acts and their mangers on different labels did give permission. The Who on Decca and Sly and The Family Stone on Columbia and Joe Cocker on A&M come to mind as outliers.

One could argue that A&M financed the Mad Dog's And Englishmen film to capitallize on Joe's Woodstock performance,

 

It is hard to say, there is only audio, no film of the event. IF anything Townshend's violent reaction was uncalled for, and would have him up on serious charges nowadays. IT probably didn't help Abbie, but he still had his Chicago court trail, Steal This Book, Nixon and Vietnam. IF anything the FBI and going underground for six years hurt Abbie, Jerry Rubin transitioned, Abbie didn't.

 

I don't know about this. If anything, their appearance helped spur the 1950's music revival that would soon happen.

 

So I don't buy it. How big really was Abbie Hoffman? Who were his followers? I don't think he really ever had a big following. He was a guy the main street media could go to for a ready quote on the "The Hippies".

I remember him best for "Steal This Book", a booksellers nightmare.

 

Steel Mill was supposed to play at Woodstock but their manager turned it down because they already had a club gig at the time!

 

One could argue that it was the tug of war between MGM Records over his first LP John B. Sebastian. John had left the Loving' Spoonful the year before. He had worked on some music for a Btoadway play and another unrealized project. Just before Woodstock his LP was set for release. MGM Records (through the Lovin' Spoonful) claimed it Reprise claimed it, a big lawsuit happened. Results both labels released it with different covers, which killed any momentum John had, especially after Woodstock.

 

That's what I meant. I said their appearance had the opposite effect of this thread's premise.

 

Well, it never really damaged his reputation, but Neil Young insisting that his performances be cut out of the Woodstock film really set him up as a strange bird.

 

Hoffman was a major player in the counterculture.

 

Pete has gone from saying he almost killed him with the guitar, to he knocked his face with the headstock of the guitar. It would be interesting to know the truth.

 

I don't think it's true that Sebastian's career was damaged by Woodstock. He was featured prominently in the movie and soundtrack album, and his set seems well-received by the audience. He engages in some stoned, hippy-dippy rambling at times, but he's hardly the only one who does that, nor do I think anyone at that time would judge him negatively for it in context. Where was he "widely ridiculed" at the time? I'd be curious to see any printed examples of such ridicule.

If anything, Woodstock probably helped him, as his career was on the downturn. His last album with the Spoonful in 1968 only made it to #118 and failed to produce any major hits, and his first solo single (in late 1968) stalled out at #84. The Spoonful had been a singles band and were becoming viewed as passe' as FM rock and albums became more prominent. Yet after Woodstock, Sebastian's first solo album made it to #20, his best chart showing in three years (and this is despite the legal issues between MGM and Reprise related to the album, as alchemy noted above).

 

I don't know of act that was 'damaged' by appearing at Woodstock. Just the sheer association by itself has proved to be a boon in one way or another.

 

Yeah I was somewhat baffled by the OPs reference to John Sebastian embarrassing himself with the counterculture at Woodstock. I'd always heard it that his set was a small triumph that indeed boosted his career and re-established the currency of the LS back catalogue. What is the exact 'Aquarian' quote that is so embarrassing? I can't really imagine most attendees or weekend hippy listeners at home being so uptight as to be put off by a what was presumably a light hearted 'Hair' reference. Yeah maybe it would have seemed a bit lame to the real ultra freaky counterculture types, but was Sebastian ever considered an icon of that set? Any counter cultural cred the Spoonful had had already been caused a lot more damage by the 1967 drug bust in which Yanovsky was said to have named his dealer; if anything Sebastian's set represented the freak nation of 1969 and beyond re-embracing the work of the Spoonful almost nostalgically.