Cartridges: Inner Groove Distortion Vs. Surface Noise

Hi All! Please forgive me, but I probably don't know how to ask this correctly....

$500 budget for TT, cartridge, and stylus. I'm thinking about things that bother me, such as rumble, speed variation, inner groove distortion, low frequency noise from slight warps, and surface noise, and trying to spend that $500 in a way that minimizes them. I guess I've read some posts on this forum that indicate that a line contact type stylus can minimize inner groove distortion, but will increase surface noise. Other posts seem to indicate that a line contact stylus can both minimize IGD AND surface noise, because they contact the groove in a different 'virgin' area of the groove. Opinions?

I'm also considering used linear trackers so that I don't chew up as much of the budget on a line contact stylus...

 

Accurate cartridge alignment eliminates IGD, so you don't have to worry about what type of stylus.

 

Just out of curiosity, what turntable/cartridge are you using that's giving you all these problems?

 

Rumble and speed instability, to the extent they'll even crop up or be an issue, are mostly related to the model and age of the TT. Stick with newer proven TT models and these should not occur. IGD can be from intersecting issues: the TT model, the set up/adjustments, the tonearm, bearings, the cartridge, cartridge alignment, whether these are well used or new.... There are nice affordable cartridges such as the AT line using a good old elliptical stylus that should not cause IGD to any appreciable degree. Warps and surface noise are largely aspects of the record. Although surface noise can be caused by the synergy of the system components, for example the model of speakers. The same record on five different systems can play from inky black quietness to a loud hiss / crackle. Thats something that can be minimized by a) buying clean records in the first place and b) experimenting / auditioning different system components to find the sound you like best.

Fine line or line contact stylus in my experience reduce both IGD and surface noise and increase the detail / fidelity. But they cost more.

 

I find VERY minute adjustments to fine tune my alignment has a big effect on surface noise for the better.

 

I use a line contact or "microline stylus". I'll never go back to anything else for my "main" cart, but when I acquire a turntable with a universal headshell I would like to try out some other types of carts for records that the microline does not do well with. For example, you don't want to be playing styrene 45s with a microline. Very badly pressed records and very worn/scratched records are also probably not a good idea either. IME you'll hear almost every flaw on those. The exception is when it's just play wear that is high in the groove. That does happen, and when the microline can ride below that it can reduce surface noise from that type of wear. If your records are filthy, scratched up, etc. a microline or line contact would probably be the last stylus type I'd be looking for though...I'd go with a DJ/broadcast cart of some type with a plain conical stylus.

Another thing: I've tried some of those "good" elliptical styli from AT and while they handle IGD better than a conical, they didn't eliminate it either. I've tried those on some very aggressively cut records, records that were cut very close to the label (i.e. not audiophile mastering practices where you have a ton of deadwax) and the IGD was still there plain as day. The microline eliminated it on those records.

I am using an older turntable, but so what? My friend has a brand new Pro-Ject Debut Carbon with 2M Red and that cart has IGD out the wazoo on certain records.

 

Among other things, whether or not a line-contact stylus both minimizes surface noise (on clean records) and yields a "fresher" sound on worn records vs other types of styli depends on the quality of the diamond, how it is polished, and the dimensions of the contact surface. It also depends on how the records were worn in the first place. IME, Audio-Technica's MicroLine styli (specifically the ones on the AT160ML, AT150MLX, and AT440MLa) have simultaneously been the quietest in the groove while also getting the most out of old, worn records. IGD is essentially non-existent with a properly aligned MicroLine.

 

My last set-up was B&O RX w/MMC5. Rumble, warble, lots of inner groove distortion. At least by my tin ears. No adjustments were possible other than tracking force. It is currently not useable. I bought a B&O linear tracker online to correct IGD, but it got damaged in shipping (another thread).

 

Re: rumble, most of the your new entry level "hi-fi" TTs have issues with that. There are DIY fixes for that you can read about, but just be away.

Re: warble, I assume you mean wow and flutter, and the TT's ability to hold speed. If you are very sensitive to this, and/or have perfect pitch, do not buy one of the TTs mentioned in the above sentence. Instead you'll want to go with a quartz-lock direct drive (possibly heresy around here) or something that has a very accurate speed control box that prevents the speed from deviating (possibly beyond your budget even used).

 

IGD starts at the mastering stage, cutting the lacquer, making the metal parts and who pressed it and on what material. A linear tracking turntable can help, as that's how the lacquers were cut. IGD is not always a set-up issue with a turntable. You'll notice that some LP's have it and some don't being played on the same turntable. As an example, I have a copy of the LP "Green Tambourine" by the Lemon Pipers on Buddah BDS-5009. It was cut by Bell Sound and the metal parts were made by Columbia's Customatrix division and probably pressed by Columbia Terra Haute. Buddah decided to put the title track on the inner 7th band on Side 1. That track has been distorted on every turntable I've ever played it on from a home stereo to a multi-$k turntable. It was just a poor mastering job.
If you want to buy a decent turntable and stay within your $500. budget, the Audio Technica AT-LP120-USB is a good choice. It comes with an AT cart, but I'd toss it before it ruins your records, like my first one did. I settled on a Shure M97Xe after trying other comparable carts. You'll have plenty of money left over. Check out the specs. Wow and flutter is less than .2%. Right that's .2%. It's direct drive and the only rumble I've ever heard was from the lacquer cutting lathe.
You're right about the line contact stylus, supposedly originally known as the Shibata. It will bring out more sound, including surface noise and other defects. I learned that back in the 70's with an AT-12S cart made for playing the CD-4 discrete quad records. When I played a regular record, the extra noise was annoying. The LP's of the 60's and 70's, like the RCA Dynagroove, were cut to be played with a conical stylus. I ended up going with an elliptical stylus and the sound was much better.
If you end up buying a turntable, buy it from someone who will take it back if you are unhappy with it.

 

I think thst maybe you are getting very ahead of things here.
When one secures a turntable , its wise to chose carefully. Arms/ cartridges, that synergise well are also required. Thst can be obtained from the very helpful people on this site.
All the imperfections and distortions are largely absent wuth good set up,
Where lateral adjustment is correct and cartridge is square in the groove, tracking weight is set by ear, and setting recorded in a small diary along with vta and bias settings. All test record results for future reference.
Another important factor is to forget notions that cost is an arbitor of quality. It should! But alas does not.
Ortofons, goldrings Shures (used with JICO stylus) will, when mated to suitable arms will produce the required effect!
Used coils all my life. Now enjoying mm, cartridges, again properly set up and, loaded properly and used with suitable interconnect and phono stage is where your quest lies.
It has been said many times on this forum that meticulous set up rewards with performance free from most of the ill and woes that concern you.

 

Get yourself a nice vintage quartz-locked direct-drive turntable & slap a Denon DL-110 cartridge on it. This will alleviate/eliminate all the problems you're worried about & $500 should cover it.

 

Yes, a well polished MR stylus on a reasonably good arm will minimize both IGD and surface noise. It has nearly nothing to do with alignments, but everything to do with tracing and minimizing vibrations.

 

You are reading a lot of good stuff here, basically fine tuning your cartridge and tonearm is the main key. Me personally I will not go back to anything less than a ML type stylus. The performance of ML/Contact/Shibata stylus on VG/VG+ and better records can be magical, I don't play bad condition vinyl, I will just look for a better copy or buy a reissue if it exists.

If you jump into these higher end stylus types, high level of detail is needed for alignment to pull out the benefits....if not it's like putting a set of Walmart tires on a Porsche.

 

I keep hoping someone will address the linear tracking tt as an option.

 

Yes. I just sold my spare turntable, a vintage Sony PS-x600 Biotracer turntable with a low-hour Denon DL-110, for around that price. It had none of the problems the OP is concerned about. My buyer has a variety of nice VPI, Rega, and older vintage turntables but was really impressed with what he heard from the old direct-drive Sony/Denon pairing. Of course, I had everything aligned and setup accurately. Find either a seller that is experienced in testing and shipping used turntables or try to find someone selling a turntable locally or be willing to travel a little for it so you can get a look at it yourself.

 

Linear decks can cause as many problems as they cure.
Your stuck with the stock arm.They are often of high mass. This dictates what type of cartridge you can use.
You need a linear motor to control the accurate movement towards the centre, which can, in some cases strain the cantilever.
If the record is not concentric it can cause problems.
I have a Pioneer PL L 1000 which i will probably sell as the Thorens suits my requirements(cartridge wise) and although it is s lovely sounding unit, but honestly pivoted arms rule!

 

Not fully true. Stylus type definitely makes a difference in IGD vs none.

 

Like what?

 

Well, I just upped my VTA by 1mm...(RP6,2M Bronze, 2mm spacer), and it made a big difference in presentation and surface noise. My original matt however was only 1mm thick, so I was a tad underdone there in the first place. Standard Rega felt matt is 2mm I think.

 

Yes, I have subsequently learned that thanks to knowledgeable posts in this forum.

 

So I take it using two vs one mat can also change vta? Because my table doesn't have vta adjustment.

 

Yes Heckto, I believe so. Neither does the Rega, so once I shimmed at 2mm (ortofon cartridge), if I wanted any change in VTA it had to be by messing around with matt thickness.

 

IGD is a function of stylus size relative to groove size, when the radius of curvature decreases toward the end of the record due to the slower groove speed. Lay your hand flat on a table with your fingers spread out, and trace around them. Pretty easy. Now close your fingers and try to trace around them. It's hard. That's IGD. And cartridge alignment can't change that. A higher-end stylus like a Shibata will.