CCR SACD vs new vinyl

Take 2 Aspirins and call Audio Fidelity in the morning.

 

Me too.

Just finished getting all the CCR vinyl and now it's off to complete my SACD's. Got 5 more to go.

Remember rp, there's safety in numbers.

 

I have all but 2 of the SACD's and most of the DCC's; the SACD layer has more "YOU ARE THERE" life compared to the gold DCC's (which I'll keep, too) - John L., what don't you specifically like about those 2 SACD's you have?

 

IMO, both Analogue Production vinyl and sacd's are where you should be with these recordings. Even though I am only listening cd layer of sacd, but it is great. I only have CF in both versions, but I do prefer vinyl version of it. Vinyl has more depth, but perhaps that has something to do with my analog vs. digital front end.


Matti

 

I haven't tried a head-to-head comparison of the Bayou Country SACD to DCC CD, but I DID compare the Cosmos SACD layer to the DCC CD on the Sony SACD775, 555ES and AX777ES. EXTENSIVELY. (The SACD775 was purchased for my mom. The 555Es was purchased for its multidisc capacity. The AX777ES was purchased for critical listening. The Cosmos discs were two of the discs I used to compare the overall sound quality of the three players, and to solve the DCC gold vs Hofmann SACD question for myself once and for all. Other equipment used for the comparison: Dual McIntosh 7270 amps running as monoblocks, McIntosh C26 preamp, Yamaha RXV1 preamp section, and Vienna Acoustics Mahlers. (I used both the McIntosh C26 preamp and the Yamaha RXV1 preamp section because each has its pluses and minuses, and my C34V preamp isn't working right now.) Here's the breakdown:

With both played on Sony AX777ES SACD player, the SACD beats the DCC CD hands down. The SACD is totally liquid and analog sounding. The DCC sounds like an EXCELLENT CD, but it still sounds like a CD.

With both played on Sony 555ES SACD player, the DCC CD sounds better than the SACD. The CD performance on the 555 is MUCH better, qualitatively, than the SACD performance is, and SACDs sometimes sound a little strained. The DCC CD sounds like an EXCELLENT CD. The SACD makes you wonder what all the fuss is about. It's not as smooth as the DCC. Compared to the AX777ES, the 555ES is fairly close for CD playback, although the 555ES sounds more like a good CD player, and the AX777ES sounds almost like analog. On SACD, the 555ES sounds strained and "off"
in a way that is not at all pleasing when direcly compared to the AX777ES. On the whole, excellent CDs sound better than SACDs on the 555ES.

With both played on Sony SACD775 player, the SACD sounds better than the DCC CD. The DCC CD sounds like an EXCELLENT CD. The SACD sounds better.

Compared to the 555ES, the SACD775 sounds like it's covered with a rag. Much more distant and muffled sounding. However, this distance and muffling works to its advantage on SACD playback, because the strain that sometimes comes thru on the 555ES isn't as apparent.

My conclusion: The SACD775 is a decent CD/SACD combo for low $$, but not ion the same class as the 555ES. The 555ES is a very good CD player and a good but not great SACD player. The AX777ES is an excellent CD player and an excellent SACD player.

Whether the DCC gold or its SACD counterpart sounds better is VERY player dependent. Which says something about how well the DCCs were mastered.

Cosmo's sounds INCREDIBLE on SACD on my AX777ES. Incredible enough that I re-purchased all the Creedence titles on SACD.

 

Haven't heard Comos on SACD yet but the AP vinyl beats the DCC gold CD hands down.

 

Just for kicks I tried out the CD layer on Mardi Gras and it was no match for the regular Fantasy K2 20bit version. The SACD layer is way better though and may even beat the Ampex 7½ ips reel to reel tape (although I don't have the tape anymore to compare directly). I played the CDs using a high end Wadia unit.

 

Dwmann,

Thanks so much for that comparison of yours! My comments on the CCR SACD's was thru a 555es. I knew I was'nt crazy. This addiction never ends. Now, to buy a 777??? Thanks.

John

 

John,

Pick up an AX777 or the newer version if you can. The 555ES is a GREAT player for the price, but only delivers a hint of what SACD can sound like. I purchased my 555 months before my AX777, dutifully bought all the Stones SACDs, and wondered what all the hoopla was about. I could tell SACD had the POTENTIAL to improve on truly excellent redbook, but I was hearing artfiacts that I found disturbing, to say the least. My reaction to SACD reminded me of my reaction to CD in 1984 - initial wonder at what it did RIGHT, with rapid dissatisfaction with what it did wrong, although the dissatisfaction set in much more quickly, as I'd already felt burned by CD and knew what to look for. I thought, "Another format it will take them years to perfect."

I bought my 555 mainly because I needed a new redbook player (mine was over 10 years old) and the 555 was such a good deal I couldn't pass it up (ES build quality/warranty, multidisc, AND SACD). I was (and still am) amazed at the redbook performance of the 555 at the price point, and still use my 555 for the multidisc capability. I bought the AX777 mainly because of the raves about its redbook performance. I figured if the 555 sounded as good as it did and the AX777 was supposed to be that much BETTER, I really needed to check it out. So I bought one with a 30 day money-back garantee, figuring I'd keep it for 30 days and get it out of my system. (I figured NO WAY it sounds $1100 better than the 555.)

Needless to say, I couldn't bring myself to take it back. It really IS that good. And when I heard it with SACD I was STUNNED. Discs I found irritating on the 555 sounded AMAZING. Stuff that had sounded what I can only describe as "too loose and flabby, like something wasn't connected together properly" suddenly sounded clean and tight, and I was SOLD on SACD.

And Steve's CCRs really ARE incredible.

 

John,

Another thing you might try, which I'm considering doing myself:

Oade Bros has a cheap mod (replacing the op amps with better op amps) which they say improves the sound of the 555ES to bring it more in line with the AX777. I think cost is around $100 - $150. Unlike most of the SACD-player modifications discussed on audiogon and other sites (which I would never consider, and which void the warranty), Oade swears that if they swap the op amps it WILL NOT void the Sony 5 yr ES warranty.

I spoke to a couple of the guys at Oade about this when I bought my player, and they said the newer op amps really smooth out the sound of the 555. I'd never heard the unit stock, and wanted to, so I decided to wait on the op amps. I'm going to send my player in sometime in February or March and see what happens. I'll report the results here. In the meantime, you might contact Oade Bros and talk to them about this. $150 for op amps is a LOT cheaper than $2000+ for a new player.

 

Guys, what is your thought on spending this much on a SACD player that does not handle DVD-A. Are you just not interested in the DVD-A format? Don't think it is going to make it???

Curious.....

 

I compared the DCC "Cosmos Factory" to the CD layer of the SACD and discovered something interesting:

If you turn the volume way up between tracks you'll hear the songs fade to silence on the DCC, while the hiss level remains the same on the SACD. You can even hear some print through from the next track as it's about to start.

It's just like listening to a tape - The Master Tape in this case. I would have to believe the SACD is the most accurate representation of what's on the actual master tape. Just my $.02.

 

I bought a Yamaha DVD-S1200 for DVD-A, but so far only own ONE DVD-A disc (Fleetwood Mac's Rumors) with no new purchases in sight. I'm willing to buy more if they release any titles I'm interesed in, but given a choice between a DVD-A and a hybrid SACD of the same title (which is how it appears the coming titles that I'm interested in will be released) I'll opt for SACD every time if the sound quality is even remotely comparable, because to me, playing DVD-As is a MAJOR hassle. Whoever the genius was that thought of marketing what are basically music-only discs with menus that require a TV for navigation should be shot. How stupid can you get? At least the DVD-S1200 has an indicator that lets you know what audio track is playing...

DVD-A performance on the DVD-S1200 is better than SACD performance on the 555, but redbook isn't even close. Based on my experience so far, I'd think that for mass-market combo players, DVD-A performance will probably be better than SACD. I would not WANT an SACD player to play DVD-As, or vice versa, because then the player isn't really optimized for either, unless you want to spend megabucks I don't have.

I don't know if either SACD or DVD-A will survive. SACD might make it based on the fact that they can basically add the SACD layer to a CD, so a lot of people will end up with a lot of SACD titles by default, if they release enough hybrid discs. I stay away from single-layer discs, regardless of the title, because I already learned my lesson on THAT with 8 track. Even if the CD layer sucks, I'll always be able to unload my SACD discs on the strength of the CD layer and revert to MFSLs, DCCs, and original masterings that sound better without losing much, if SACD dies. But if SACD survives (as anything but an audiophile format), it will be because Sony continues to back it in the marketplace with new releases, NOT because of the sound quality, because the average consumer doesn't really CARE, and doesn't own equipment that can reveal the nuances on SACD anyway. On an average cheap combo player, I don't think SACD sounds THAT much better than good redbook, and may not always sound as good.

As it stands, I don't see much hope for DVD-A at all. Too few titles, no compatibility with CD players, and no real commitment from the manufacturers. Since so many cheap combo players are coming out, I can't see the public paying the extra bucks for a disc you really need a TV to play properly if they can buy a CD or SACD hybrid version cheaper. You can only read lyrics or look at still pictures while you music is playing before you start thinking about all the electricity you're wasting by leaving your TV on when nothing is really happening onscreen. DVD-As only real hope, ever, was the multichannel capability, and SACD has that, too. The public doesn't really seem to care about MC anyway. Unless the DEVD-A crowd gets their act together quick, DVD-A will go the way of Digital Cassette and disappear before ever really making a dent.

 

How could you not? I can't stop listening to them!! There's a magic in these recording that, like all great music, trascends time. It's country, blues, rock n roll, psychedelic...the musical interplay that was captured is so amazing.

On thread topic (sort of), AP's Cosmo's Factory was the first Steve Hoffman CD I ever bought. I don't have an SACD player, but I feel like I've been spoiled in a good way. I can never listen to another version. I am discovering CCR for the first time. I was only familiar with Cosmo's Factory, but I'm buying all of their albums on AP (and DCC when I can't afford it.) Do I sound like I'm kissing 'A'? Hopefully, it will make up for taking away the subscription of Stereophile.

 

I just picked up the "Bayou Country" SACD yesterday, and listened to it last night. It really does sound excellent, much, much better than the remastered CD version that it is replacing. "Cosmos Factory" will be next!!




Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion