Cds demise, or not?

It's still amazing to me how many people like to slam CD's. Done properly, they sound amazing. And they are very portable and convenient as opposed to a triple-the-price LP with all its inherent short comings; surface noise, and it only takes one play on a bad stylus to gouge the grooves forever. How many people have damaged a CD by playing them on a bad player? Sometimes I don't like to waste the time connecting Bluetooth in my car and navigating for an album or playlist on the iPhone. Sometimes I like to grab a disc and put it in the player and just be on my way. And I don't foresee grandma or the technically challenged tossing their convenient shiny discs in favor of streaming or even portable music devices anytime soon. This just feels like when a band becomes so big that people want to hate their next release because of media saturation. Remember when Blondie was #1 in 1980/81 but by their surprisingly good 1982 album, everybody decided to hate them? This feels like the same thing. But just like Blondie was re-appreciated years later, I don't expect the CD will ever be gone for good. Hell, if people can start to champion horrible cassettes again then nothing is sacred. I was just at a Barnes and Noble last week, and even though they've greatly expanded their vinyl section (I purchased some Cars and B-52's colored vinyl reissues), their CD section was still a decent size as well. There's no place in our society for CD racism ;-b

 

In stores, sure. No one goes to a store to by a download or to stream music. But most recorded music consumption, at least of new purchases in the US isn't via CD according to the industry groups that track music industry unit and dollar volume sales. In the US in the first half of 2018 according to the Nielsen midyear report issued earlier this month, all physical media represented only 15% of the market for albums. Streaming represented 66%. In 1999 there were 939.9 million CD sold in the US according to the RIAA. In 2017 there were 169.15 million sales of albums in all physical formats combined, according to Nielsen. The contraction in physical media use has been prolonged and severe and is ongoing.

 

of course you are correct about downloading and streaming.

but i was only talking CD's and vinyl.

 

Here's an interesting test case related to the thread topic.

Drake’s ‘Scorpion’ Is the Year’s Biggest Album. But Can You Find It in Stores?

 

I disagree. Music collecting is often a sign of passion. Those with small collections usually just see it as something in the background, music that they've been exposed to by popular outlets, not by making an active effort to find something that appeals to them. Many music fans are just passive, they take what's shoved down their throats for years and convince themselves they like it because it's popular and/or they've heard it a million times. But I rarely see these people seek out the full album or even have any knowledge the artist had music aside from their one or a few past hits. Those who have a strong interest in music make it part of their life and spend money supporting it. Unless they are one of those (and I've known the type) that get a perverse joy from illegally obtaining music and thinking their hard drive of pirated music constitutes an impressive "collection".

 

I'm pretty sure you can go through the entire program at Julliard without a class in record collecting, and work for years as a concert cellist without amassing thousands of CDs and an audiophile hifi rig, and I don't think there's any way to characterize as person who does that as someone who does not have a "strong interest in music." I think there's almost certainly a crossover between people who have a strong interest in collecting albums and people who have a strong interest in music. But having a strong interest in collecting albums is not an essential element of having a strong interest in music. I mean, forever there have been musicians for whom music is their lives in ways that it's not for any record collector, who did not collect records or have exceptional hifi rigs. And especially today, when more recorded music is available to more people more different ways than ever before in the history of recorded music, collecting records or CDs is not even a requisite for hearing music. Does the person who buys umpteen issues and reissues of a Beatles album to have ever cover, mix, label and remaster variant have a stronger interest in music than the person on YouTube streaming a Schoenberg piece with a read-along score?

There's no doubt that for most of humanity music is a functional, social element of their lives and culture. They're not making a study of it. But the idea that in order to be serious about ones interest in it you have to have a large collection of physical media and/or a collector's mentality I think is wrong. On this board we're largely audiophiles and record collectors so most of us tend to come at music from that perspective, but I think that's hardly the only relevant perspective on substantial music involvement and interest.

 

Perhaps I misunderstand your def of durability?

 

They're not dead and I don't see them going completely obsolete any time soon. Hell, even cassette tapes have made a slight comeback recently. A lot of independent synthwave and vaporwave artists now release their music on the format.

My main complaint with CDs is the running time.

 

Sometimes I get the feeling the CD is being murdered.

When some jerk totaled my 2015 Civic, I bought a 2018 accord. No CD Player. No Aux. I can accept it- but some things about it bug me.

Couple weeks ago went up to Kent to see Funky Feat and while there checked out some record stores. Bought three CDs, one of which was an out of print Beach Boys which is also not available on Apple music or Spotify. In other words, I couldn't listen to it on the way home. Later, I found out it was on youtube but I believe my point still stands.

The only way for me to play this CD in the car is to put in on my phone, my ipod classic or upload to my amazon cloud.

Except my new laptop doesn't have an optical drive. I can't import the CD. It's portability has been taken away.

I went out an bought an external optical drive so, yeah, problem solved I guess but we now have to do workarounds to accomplish what was so simple a few years ago.

Also, soon I won't be able to upload to my amazon cloud. They sent me an email they are discontinuing the service. They are no longer charging me, and they are letting me keep my cloud and what's in it- but I imagine in a year or two they will tell me I can no longer do that.

Ipod classic? Had it for 6 years now and of course it's no longer produced. When it dies, as it will, I lose that option as well.

That leaves my iPhone or USB. And USB won't play lossless.

Mind you, I don't need lossless in the car but I do want it to be MY choice and the only real option soon is going to be the phone.

I don't play my cassettes much anymore (although I have no plans to discard them) but I remain as enthusiastic as ever about Cd's and vinyl. I also LOVE streaming and the possibilities it offers. The car has Apple carplay and I play over a wired connection so I can eliminate Bluetooth and stream lots of music.

It's just that in my old car I could play a cd. Play MP3 cds for long road trips. Plug Ipod in to Aux (not Iphones after 7 though). Play USB. Plug ipod or iPhone in to USB.

When I discuss this in the real world I sound like an old fogey who cant stand change.

Another poster had a good comment. Streaming is great for what it is- a portable, mobile, on demand music service. Great for cars, parties, outdoor BBQ, trying new stuff, and radio. But as the CD is killed, we're being forced to only use it.

Same with downloads- if these also die, and we are left with only streaming as a digital option, might the monthly price rise? I shudder when I think about this.

Where I live (Columbus, OH) there are few places left to buy CDs. The recent Dead reissue I found at Barned and Noble. Paid a few bucks more than Amazon. B&N supply is shrinking. Best Buy selection very small, not worth even looking at. Magnolia Thunderpussy sells records and has a decent CD section. Other stores sell some used CDs. USED KIDS which is a great record store sells a bunch of used CDs but they are unorganized and you have to just search through them. Much bending over is required and my bad back doesn't allow for much of that.

Thus most of my CDs are purchased online and listened to at home.

As opposed to purchased in person and listened to anywhere I feel like it.

Streaming is fantastic, I love it, but for me it has always been a companion to my collection. It's never been an either/or.

Next month, four of us are driving to cincy to see a show. Total car time will be about five hours. We're taking my brothers SUV. For the trip, I'll be burning an MP3 CDR that we can just insert, hit shuffle and play. Put the music on and dont think about it. It's not necessary, I can live without it, the same can be accomplished with playlists etc from a phone, it's just nice have that option.

 

True. And some serious music fans prefer streaming. I have a friend who said he prefers listening to albums on Spotify rather than his cds because at the end of the year they provide him with his most played artists and songs. He likes those statistics, and as he said to me, "the only other way I'd get them is to write down everything I play, and I'll never do that."

 

Streaming is BS. I’ve never done it and never will. I know nothing about it but in my mind I look at it like Netflix. If you want to see/hear something obscure and old, impossible! It’s just not available.

My CD collection removes the problem of some service dictating what I can hear.

 

Let's see, in the last couple of days on Spotify I've streamed Julius Hemphill's Live in New York, a 30 year old avant garde jazz alto-cello date that's long out of print in any physical edition, and Hemphill's Flat-Out Jump Suite, also long out of print in a physical edition. Also streamed obscure small label jazz stuff like the recent album of solo piano by Matthew Shipp. Also I have a great playlist I made of '20s and '30s Fletcher Henderson including stuff from great John RT Davies transfers that aren't easy to get on physical media anymore.

If you want to hear old stuff, say the Wolverine Orchestra or Jelly Roll Morton or Pablo Casals, it's actually easier to find in a second on Spotify than it is to go buy somewhere on hard copy. No doubt there's stuff that's not on there. The important avant-garde jazz label Pi Recordings doesn't stream it's stuff. I went looking for a copy of Joanne Brackeen's Ancient Dynasty and couldn't find it streaming anywhere -- it also BTW was I think never released on CD.

But honestly, for the kind of relatively obscure and older stuff I'm generally looking for, a lot if it is easier to come by on Spotify than it is to dig up out of print hard copy editions that sold little and had sparse distribution. The original 1964 recording of Milton Babbitt's Philomel? It's on there. Late 1800s and early 1900 recordings of Polk Miller & the Old South Quartette? They're on there.

Spend some time with it, get to know something about it, there are things to like about it and to dislike about it, but access to old and obscure material is not one of the big problems.

 

15% is obviously much less than it used to be, but it is a huge share of the market. I don't think 15% of any business can or should be dismissed as insignificant.
Some people (like myself for example) will never be forced into subscriptions.

 

It's not insignificant and companies are still servicing that part of the market -- and it's bigger in some genres than others. Rock for example, physical media has a 40 some odd so percent share IIRC, jazz and classical too the numbers are high. And that's just the US market, physical media has a bigger share in some other global markets. But in the US in the aggregate it's a small, and most significantly, shrinking portion of the market for recorded music, with declining retail and automotive support. It's not a thriving, growing, market.

Personally I love the subscription model. I subscribe to Spotify. I also subscribe to jazz trumpeter Dave Douglas' Greenleaf Music which annually puts out tons of his music and music by a pile of other great jazz musicians and produces lots of subscriber exclusives. I'd subscribe to Bandcamp if they'd offer a similar monthly sub so I could hear more of the self produced jazz records I want to hear without buying them. I can hear more music, more cheaply, and more conveniently than ever before.

I'll buy CDs of stuff I know I'm going to want to hear over and over and over again, and want to listen to on my big hifi rig. But there's lots of listening that I might be doing only once every now and then. I mean, I have plenty of album that can go decades between spins at my house, and you know, I don't have that many decades left to live, I don't need more albums I'm going to play for a couple of months now and maybe once or twice more before I pop off in 20, 25 years. I'm happy to have subscription access to an enormous music library or two. And especially at the price. It's an enormous savings. But I literally have thousands and thousands of LPs and CD, some in storage even, and I'm getting to the age where I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of a lot of them. Too much stuff. Stuff doesn't seem so important anymore.

Now it's rare that I'll even buy an album unless I can at least stream it once in full unless it's from a long time cherished artist.

 

Very different, where I live.

My locals are expanding their vinyl sections and the used CD's are shrinking + the types of CD's being sold are a bit different than even a few years ago. For example I can pick up the majority of the 87 Beatles CD's for $1 or $2 each now. One local place won't even buy CD's anymore except rarities.

Vinyl is selling extremely well and not just to kids (did you mean a 20 something as a kid?). 20's / 30's / my age and beyond. Not that I dislike CD's mind you, I've bought more this year than in the last few years combined and they are so damn cheap.

 

Interesting read and a sign of the times.

 

I consider the main streaming services to be a little bit better, choice wise, then a Netflix. Outside of certain artists that purposeful keep their music off streaming you can pretty much find anything you want that's currently in print.

Out of print is of course another matter. Older masters or fairly obscure stuff, in particular older + obscure, likely not there. Streaming for me is a supplemental tool, for sampling. CD / vinyl rips are my main bread and butter and also are pretty "future proof".

 

Resolution is always limited, not only with CDs.

 

I find with a fair amount of stuff I'm looking for, like lately I've been looking for a bunch of avant garde jazz albums of the '70s and '80s, the hard copy editions have gone out of print, maybe Amazon will sell you a production-on-demand CDR with barely any packaging and no notes. But they're still available for streaming. It's certainly not true of everything. But it is true of a lot more than one might think. It's not like an airport bookstore where only the top pop best-sellers are on the racks. It's pretty deep. The biggest gaps relate to artists or labels who have chosen not to stream at all for economic reasons.

 

Bluetooth transmitter is a workaround, for legacy portable hardware.

Or a portable CD player + BT transmitter.

And that's the main gist here. Technology is moving (forward or backwards, I'll let you decide which). So if you are the odd-man out, workarounds are all there is - there's no way around it if you want to use legacy hardware or media formats.

Again, legacy support for them - if there's little demand, they aren't going to keep it going and anything cloud based is going to have a short shelf life. Already seen many services discontinued in the last decade or so.

Buy a FiiO DAP + BT trasmitter (if the FiiO doesn't support it). Or just use the iPhone + ALAC + BT.

My aux-in on my car died on me and I was planning to get it fixed. But honestly once I started using BT I'm not rushing out to fix it. Eventually I might for use with a legacy DAP but my phone has plenty of storage and BT is very convenient. And it sounds just fine in my car.

I don't think CD's or vinyl will ever truly die, they'll still be a market for them, albeit a small one. Probably relegated to online sales at some point but I'm not worried about it.

That was me at PREX last week - luckily my back is still in good shape but man it was getting to me at one point. I'm no spring chicken anymore, maybe this physical music hunt business is more of a young man's game.

Same feeling on streaming - supplement only, not my main driver (no pun intended). I also like having options, good for the comsumer in general - CD's, downloads, vinyl I enjoy them all.
Except cassettes...have a functioning deck but not sure I'd spend $10 for a new cassette release these days.

 

So I’m sitting listening and thumbing up/down the rubbish that Google Play seems to think I’ll like (through Sonos) in the dejected manner which Ray Liotta acts at the end of Goodfellas, when he’s in witness protection, and the game’s up.

On a happier note, when in the car earlier I listened to Prince’s Batman soundtrack on the CD I had just purchased for €4.99.

Then after that I listened to my 2nd hand vinyl of Tears For Fears, Songs from the Big Chair, which was €7.50.

And yesterday I decided on this 2nd hand CD combo for €10:

Radiohead/Pablo Honey
Neneh Cherry/Raw Like Sushi
Goldfrapp/Head First
Pulp/Goes To The Disco
Tori Amos/Choithird Hotel

But then the guy only accepted cash and the store was closed by the time I got back with the mullah

Life is full of ups and downs is what I’m sayin’. And CD’s will never die- judging by 2nd hand copies, Alanis Morrissette/Jagged Little Pill will outlive any post-nuclear holocaust cockroach

 

not cheap here, unless of course, you are the seller.

 

Maybe...I might not have been clear. I think CDs are far more robust in the face of casual/rough/dimwit handling -- they can take lots more abuse IMO than vinyl records. Of course records that have been taken care of and played on good equipment can seemingly last forever, too. I have records that are 60 years old that play like new.

 

I see your point. While they are both forms of plastic and susceptible to the same damage levels, the CD has only one side to be concerned with and the 'computer' can power through light damage as there is no physical contact.