Cleaning records: Demineralized water or distilled water?

Water be damned! I have a few G&Ts to keep me going when I'm scrubbin' the damn things down!

 

Both - I use demineralised water (as it is cheaper than distilled) with tergitol to clean my records...then I used triple steam distilled water to rinse them.

 

Medical grade purified water is best. Bought from chemists (drug stores) in 5 litre containers it is not expensive.

 

I use reagent grade water, bought a 5 gallon 'box' off of amazon years and have maybe used half cleaning 1000 records as the final rinse. Cheap compared to the boutique stuff, but expensive compared with distiller/demineralized.

 

I think most vinyl record cleaning solutions require that they be thoroughly rinsed. Better check your directions of use.

There is nothing to believe or not believe, mold release is used, so there is no leap of faith to understand that a residue is left remaining, ah?

Relieving yourself of the G&Ts as a rinse cycle will probably leave unwanted mineral deposits, aside from the concern of just how you might execute this method. (kidding) In all good conscience, I must recommend sticking with clear filtered water!(not kidding at all)

I think that is part of what this conversation is about, and one could easily dispute "what's best". First off, what is medical grade water? And how expensive is it compared to comparably filtered water? As it has been clearly portrayed here, there are differing opinions on how pure water needs to be and varying thresholds of just what each of us finds expensive, or perhaps, a value.

Happy Listening!

 

I'll rephrase then : if I thought I had to remove that substance from the lps I'd stop buying them altogether. All of my sealed lps have played surface-noise free straight out of the jacket (pun NOT intended) Maybe it's some kind of oily residue that helps the styli slide along the groove ? Manufacturers would knowingly/on purpose leave a substance that is detrimental to playback ? Sad to think they would.

I can see (hear) no harm in leaving it on the lp. Of course I maybe wrong but WTF, not going to such lenghts.

 

A post from VinylEngine, just a data point from the record pressing biz...


Re: The mold release agent and the dirty stylus
by gaslover » 29 May 2013 03:48

Gaslover here...

NONE of the suppliers we used at RTI added any type of mold release agents to their vinyl compounds. We bought from all of them.

Case Closed.

 

^ "Case closed" isn't my comment. Part of the VE post, FYI.

 

Agree the mould release problem does not exist. Records are stamped and not moulded. Impurities and unwanted chemicals may be present on the surface but RTI and other plants have denied the use of mould release in modern production.

 

Purified (medical grade) is the purist form of distilled water available and is safe for treating wounds etc. It 's extra cost is insignificant in terms of use with record cleaning apparatus. This will not add anything unwanted to the vinyl and is recommended for making up a cleaning solution or rinsing after use of proprietary cleaning solutions that leave a deposit.

 

That is indeed interesting information. I can only offer that in the automotive industry where we produce high quality optical lenses and parabolic reflectors and mold PC, PP, PMMA, Lexan, BMC, you name it, all in very high volumes, and we use mold release as a general practice. So it seems to amaze me a bit that companies like RTI could produce the volumes of PVC vinyl records with their fragile microscopic inner groove detail and find no need for release assistance, as it seems contradictory to the line of understanding we have had over the years. This is one that I will have to research a bit further across the industry. Thanks BuddhaBob

 

Interesting; this is what someone else at RTI said about mould release in the past:

 

The "mold release" issue may well be one centred on semantic confusion. RTI, (or rather someone who works or has worked for RTI for example) states unequivocally on a forum that RTI does not "add" mold release to the compound.

That would not preclude, however, vinyl compounds shipping with the release already premixed in the compounds and I would guess that this may well be the case. As you say, it's difficult to believe that the process could be achieved without some assistance. The speculation on audio forums over the years (at least as I see it) has always been that, if the release is premixed in the compound, that the heating and pressing of the vinyl somehow releases the compound during the process and then it migrates to the surface.

If that is indeed the case, the zillion dollar question then becomes: does it affect playback and can it be removed by cleaning products? I can't say for sure but I can say that some new records benefit significantly from a cleaning, others less so; that leads me to believe that not all records are created equally.

To complicate matters further, there are obviously different vinyl compounds out there and have been over the years. Some, if there is mold release, may have a much higher content than others. It may not be specific to mold release, but I've been struck over the years by just how different cleaned records can "feel" using a carbon fibre brush. Some of them exhibit much higher levels of friction, for lack of a better word, than others when thoroughly cleaned.

So I tend to think we may be shooting at a moving target on this one.

Edit: Phil beat me to it!! That's the problem with writing longer posts and then editing them!

 

According to a technical manual I own: 85%PVC 14%Vinyl Acetate 1%Lubricants

 

Note; demineralised water, water with the minerals, i.e. solids, removed.

 

The possible use of mold release leaves a cloudy film across our understanding when in search of proper methods of cleaning and rinsing vinyl Lp records.

One siting that is not at all backed by references, is hardly authoritative. There are far too many contradictory references to the use of mold release, either being employed by such agents as silicone being sprayed on the mold directly or sitings of patented compounding of PVC with such elements as stearic acid or the like as an agent that migrates to the mold surface during the heating and molding process to unequivocally say, "case closed".

I think we have to consider that it may well exist on many of our records, whether or whether not one not necessarily authoritative reference claims RTI actually uses it today.

With all due respect, nothing about vinyl records, vinyl cleaning, or a true understanding of vinyl manufacturing can so easily be dictated. Therefore I will continue to search out information and assume in the meantime that such practices have indeed existed in the history of vinyl Lp record pressing, are a subject for concern, and are a worthwhile discussion point when contemplating record cleaning and rinsing.

 

Yes. The post from VinylEngine was presented for information only and I didn't consider it case closed.

I personally use a variety of cleaning methods depending on whether the record is new or used, may have mildew, pizza grease, fingerprints, whatever. If there is mold release I believe it is a moot issue because I use a variety of detergents, alcohol, etc. Where mold release is claimed as an additive, it is sometimes claimed to be a waxy compound.

As far as water, I get the cheapest distilled water I can find for cleaning and rinsing.

 

It is also very possible a core of collectors get themselves whipped up in a frenzy and start to treat & clean things that aren't there or aren't a problem.

Am I hearing surface noise? No sir, thats the stylus plowing its way through this stuff called mold release.

 

No need for frenzy here, it is just the subject matter of the thread, I purely brought mold release up because it could be another element of the pollution in the grooves to consider. Evidently BuddaBob like many of us, is throwing a range of weapons into battle, along with liberal rinsing, and if the vinyl sounds good, no problemo, the job is done!

 

Following up on this, I used the MoFi Enzyme Plus and the Pure rinse on several records, making sure to do thorough rinsing each time. I must say this combination provided excellent results. Records I had previously cleaned with the MoFi deep clean and/or Super record wash came out noticeably cleaner. I could see dust floating to the surface while cleaning and rinsing. I generally rinsed until I couldn't see any more noticeable debris/dust floating on the surface.

I tried a few just with a rinse of a generous amount of distilled water instead of the Pure and had similar results, so I'm not sure how much the Pure makes a difference. YMMV.

 

What do you do after rinsing? Do you let the records dry or use some kind of clotch to dry them off.
For the moment I let them dry a few hours but I'm wondering if it should be better to dry them off immediately after rinsing or not?!

 

I wouldn't let them completely air dry. I would first dry them off with a soft micro fibre cloth as best you can and then let them air dry in a dish rack for a while before playing them.

It's a lot easier to dry them with a record cleaning machine. A VPI 16.5 is relatively inexpensive and dries the records with a vacuum suction. You can play them right away too.

 

You guys in the US are lucky, sadly there are no stores in the UK left that sell distilled water. You can get it online, but my suspicious nature wonders if that might just be tap water...

I therefore have to use de-ionized water, but the results with the Spin Clean are excellent IMO.

 

As long as your results are excellent, I wouldn't change a thing I was doing!

 

If you folks in the UK are still using "irons" to iron clothing, distilled water should be available. Most irons require distilled water.