Cleaning records with Tergitol

I've posted in other threads and gotten many questions in those threads and privately about cleaning records in a Tergitol surfactant solution as recommended by the Library of Congress: http://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/record.html

So I was cleaning a batch of records and just decided to record my incessantly long rambles and illustrate how I clean my records, rather than typing out numerous explanations. I also got a lot of questions about label damage from dunking records, and I get the sense that a lot of people have never actually done so and just assume they are horribly damaged by moisture, so I covered that in detail as well to assure you that no, they basically come out 100% just fine:



Maybe this will help folks out who are playing around with DIY cleaning methods, solutions, and the like.

This is just what I do and came up with on my own as I went about researching and finding a way to clean a lot of records really well, really fast, and on the cheap. You might have some suggestions or improvements to do this better, but just thought I'd share it!

Cliff notes: buy Tergitol surfactants from TALAS (talasonline.com), put 10-20 drops per each into a gallon of distilled water to form solution. Use as desired, by hand, in a RCM, etc. I use a full dunk in baking tins with a MOFI brush by hand, then distilled water rinse tub and air dry. Works great!

How well this compares with more expensive commercial solutions, enzymes, vaccuuming, etc I cannot say. I was so pleased with this method and 95% of the records came out so dead quiet (unless played heavily while dirty) that I didn't really embark on a comparison of other methods because it just seemed so unnecessary.

Hope some folks find this useful in some fashion!

 

For there to be an inner label there has to be an outer label. What is it?

Thanks for the video lots of good information but I think it could have been half the length.

 

Interesting to see that the labels are more resilient than I would have thought. I still wouldn't get 'em wet personally, though

I'll stick with my vacuum string cleaner, but it's interesting to see what others are doing.

Thanks for posting the video. More of us should do stuff like this.

ccm

 

Excellent video Chris! Thanks for posting this!

 

some labels will definitely get permanently discolored if you get them wet

 

My experience cleaning older Blue Note vinyl is the color will run on the label especially if accidentally smudged while handling when wet.

 

Getting labels wet like that is just a BAD idea. I use a label protector with every wash, and sometimes, some water creeps in. I can see the effect it has on the labels even after drying.

 

This was my fear at first, but having cleaned hundreds of records, I have never seen this happen, ever. Possible, I suppose, but until it does happen I'm not going to worry about it. As I explained, I'm not a collector, I'm an audiophile, so ymmv if your primary task is visual minty cleanliness.

 

I know they do it for a reason, but I actually hate using Mo Fi record wash and super deep cleaner because it beads up constantly. I use a VPI 16.5 and I hold the brush directly behind the vacuum tube to make sure the fluid is spread evenly. If I don't, the cleaner beads immediately and wants to spin out toward the outer edge of the record. I need to get some Tergitol.

And pardon my ignorance, but what is YMMV??

 

In my experience it's older labels, mostly from the '50s. As noted above old Blue Notes being one example. I'd hate to muck up an original BN given what they can sell for.

Older Columbias also run and/or turn pink.

Depending on the record I also wouldn't worry too much, but there are a few that definitely do run/change.

 

Your mileage may vary. It means your experience may differ.

Also, I think this will be my method here. Not the label dunking, but I think I'll do a Tergitol solution in a Nitty Gritty cleaner. Do a Tergitol in one pump and plain distilled water in the other and do each side once with each solution. Seems like a good idea to me.

 

Yep.
-Bill

 

Thanks Chris, good info.

M~

 

Chris,
Why did you buy the oil soluble Tergitol 15-s-3 as well, if you are using distilled water?

 

That is correct. 15-S-3 and 15-S-9 is what I am using, equal parts of each in my solution. Both were (and I believe still are available) ordered from TALAS.

I have not done any testing of just using one on its own or comparison testing of that sort. Whether I actually need to use both, or would be equally well served using only one, I do not know, but it seemed to make sense to use both (to me anyway!).

 

Chris, I looked at the Library of Congress specs you linked to in a previous post and I have a question: Do you store the Tergitol the way they recommend, in a food free refrigerator? Or does Tergitol have it's own storing procedures that come with the bottle?

I am really intrigued with this cleaning solution, but the possibility of having to store in a dedicated refrigerator has me balking at pulling the trigger and buying a bottle.

 

Thanks very much for this info, Chris. I now have to deal with getting MoFi sleeve residue off hundreds of records, and needed a non-labor intensive and inexpensive method of cleaning.

After spending what must have been hours researching various cleaning methods, I've decided to go with yours. The only real variation I'm making is not dunking the labels. I just can't bring myself to do that. So I'll just make a Tergitol solution in a container, and clean my records by setting them on a microfiber towel covered surface for scrubbing with a MoFi brush.

I do have a Spin Clean but I've come to the conclusion I don't like the solution they use or the brushes. The mechanism of the machine is genius and labor-saving, but their proprietary solution just seems substandard. I think you can trace a lot of minute noise artifacts to this solution, and not getting it properly removed from your records. Reducing the amount of solution (from three capfuls to one, as suggested by many) seems to reduce noise concerns, but really why bother if the solution presents this kind of problem to begin with.

So, I'll be using my Spin Clean for the rinse stage by taking out the brushes and filling it with distilled water, just using the rollers to spin the record. I was worried at first about the record surface contacting the plastic that holds the brushes, but I found that as long as you carefully guide in the record, you are in the clear. Once in, if the record accidentally falls to one side the bottom edge of the record contacts the plastic on the bottom, not allowing the top edge of the record to contact the top of the plastic on the other side, if that makes sense. One drawback here is I will have to change out this water frequently, as the Spin Clean only holds 3 cups of water.

I like the fact that no drying cloth or brush is touching the record after the final rinse. I'm guessing needing at least a half-hour of dry time?

Inner sleeves:

Bags Unlimited poly-lined paper sleeves. I just can't go back to MoFi after this. I used the BU sleeves for years before MoFi, and they served me well. The plastic is somewhat brittle looking and feeling, but my older records stored in these from back in the day still look and sound fine. The sleeves are easy to handle, and fit in the outer jacket with ease. No fiddling whatsoever. The 100 ct. price is $36, which is a bargain compared to other audiophile type sleeves.

Outer sleeves:

The Japanese style sleeves with the sticky strip sold by Elusive Disc. I know our host hates them, but these type of sleeves are perfect for shelves. I recently had to start putting my records back in the jackets, instead of storing them behind, as I moved from boxes to shelves and they were taking up too much room on the shelf storing the record that way. I have the opening of the sleeve toward the spine, as this presents the most readable option. Also, having the flap toward you makes it easier to manipulate the record into the slot. If the flap is away from you (at record opening) it's harder to deal with if the record catches the flap of the one next to it as you slide it in.

The sticky strip is a concern, and it can be especially frustrating if it contacts the surface of a jacket and either leaves a residue trail or even pulls material from the jacket. But just like anything else involving records, you just have to be mindful of what you're doing.

 

But they don't come out 100% just fine. You even point out the swelling and saturation damage to the label. This never goes away. Thankfully, you note that its not a $300 record but the value of many records is relative to the owner. Todays low-value LPs do become tomorrows valued rarities. Water damage to labels - even minor damage - is just as frustrating as the dealers who 'mark' labels with permanent ink for their 99 cent bin. A private label LP of only 300 pressed may be worthless to one person but a holy grail to another.

It is easy to clean records without getting the labels wet. I've washed easily 10,000 records in my lifetime. When water gets on or lingers too long on most types or paper it absolutely, 100%, will leave distinct tell tale signs, which remain permanent. Some types of coated or finished paper stock are relatively impervious to mild wetting but even so I've seen those tell tale signs where water lingered too long.

Not that long ago I got a tip to a check out a collection for sale that had some original UK '60's Lp (Beatles & Stones etc.). I am very familiar with the look and characteristics of most LP labels - paper stock, texture or finish, print quality, spindle marks to the paper, and so on. Immediately on examining them I noticed many labels had once been wetted. As I angled the labels to the light the sheen and look were 'off.' They had mild swelling areas and a distinct texturing that most people would not 'see' or notice, and toned a certain way. I am intimately familiar with Parlophones and the deep groove Decca's and although they appeared fine in the sense that they were not blatantly 'water damaged' - the labels were very clearly damaged. I asked the owner what his cleaning method was, sure enough he describes how he carefully washes them, gets the labels wet but quickly dries them off, etc. Later I showed him what water does by comparing LPs he had not completely wetted. I point out the characteristics. He said you know I never noticed how it affects them. It did affect the value. The damage was needless and could have been avoided by taking an extra minute or two of care when cleaning.

 

Tergitol + Spin Clean RCM sounds pretty interesting, I might try that next.
And doing it while the washing machine is in the spin cycle might add some ultra-sonic cleaning action

 

We know that is what you are using but why both... water and oil based when you are using water. Also how do you stor it ?

Thanks

 

Keep us posted. I've been generally happy with the results I get with my Spin Clean but would like to learn more about using homebrew flocculant solutions with it.

 

I assume newer labels benefit from modern chemistry and are made with moisture resistant material. Many older labels either have lost their water resistance or never had any in the first place. I personally have experienced quite a few labels bleeding their colors and/or becoming water logged and peeling when they got wet. I changed my cleaning method as a result so as to avoid getting any moisture on the labels. Whether one is a collector or an audiophile (or both), isn't it preferable to have records whose labels are in as close to their original condition as possible?

 

I use Chris' method and keep the label exposure very brief. I have only had label problems when I slipped once and scrubbed an older Capitol label a bit, which brought off some of the black ink and left a light patch. I am more careful now. I clean in batches of 40-50 when no one else is around to disturb anything. Very pleased with the results.

I found two plastic tubs at Wally-world for about $6 each, just the right diameter and I like the extra height of the edges vs a pizza pan. I also worried about aluminum oxides (or even other metals from a stainless pan) getting in the mix, so I prefer a plastic container for my wash and rinse. These drink tubs are also much cheaper than metal pans.

To answer one question from some months ago, I store mine in an "overflow" fridge. The Tergitol bottles are double bagged and clearly marked in writing and with a skull & bones, just in case, although the stuff isn't poison, per se. I think the Library of Congress recommendation to store it in a non-food fridge is just common sense if you are in a shared government facility where some fool might think it is a food product. But there is nothing about the detergent as I store mine which would interact with food in the fridge.

Using both types, some have asked why use water with the oil based flavor of Tergitol...it is miscible with water and works in concert with the other Tergitol to take care of water and oil dissolvable contaminants on your records. I use a bit of isopropyl in the rinse water to help things dry faster and potentially help rinse away anything that isn't fully dissolved by the two-Tergitol mix.

So far, so good. I certainly agree that if you are a collector who may be concerned about any possible rippling, bubbling, fading, lifting of your labels--do not get them wet, ever. That said, if you are careful you will usually never notice any damage from this method.

 

I don't see why this couldn't be used with two Spin-Cleans in concert . . . one with the Tergitol mix, the other with distilled water for rinsing. And if you use a Spin-Clean properly, the labels don't get wet.

 

^^ Ben, not a bad idea to try, although Spin Clean devotees say the proprietary Spin Clean solution is a good detergent and a good flocculant. They will show you pictures of their record crud huddled together at the bottom of the Spin Clean tank. I don't have any personal experience with the SC cleaning system, but I have read many, many posts and reviews, along with YouTube run-throughs. I don't know that the Tergitol and rinse would work any better than a single SC with the recommended cleaning solution--my guess is about the same. The attraction in using Tergitol, for me, was having something easy to use that I could set up for less than $75 and, other than distilled water, my investment is done. I would use distilled water with a Spin Clean, but then have to buy more SC juice in the future. Since the Tergitol is so concentrated, I can't see using all of what I have in my lifetime. With a good water filter, I could even eliminate the distilled water expense.

There are some who use tap water and find it works well, but I have well water and distilled is needed for a completely mineral-free (therefore quiet) rinse.