Compression..why so much?

This sprung from Patrick M's link to the wonderful interview with Eric Johnson engineer Richard Mullen.

I'd just like to get some input from the experts. I know that a certain amount of compression is necessary to balance and to get things to sit correctly in a mix. But why is built-in overcompression (to give a CD the highest possible overall level) necessary for radio when radio itself compresses the music? Why does the recording engineer mix it to sound like its already on the radio? Am I missing something? Or is compression simply a "trick" to get music to sound like commercials? Can they not simply send a "compressed to ****" version to radio stations and leave the commercial one with some natural dynamic range?

Questions questions. Anyone got any answers?

 

Compression

Beagle,

A great thread idea!! I will let the "real" experts answer. All of your questions are right on target . So many Popular releases from about the early 90's on seem so much like track-saturated, over-compressed, multi-track mono noise when compared to the more dynamic mixes and masters from the 70's and 80's. It is no wonder that we as high quality sound fanatics seek out older recordings going back as far as the 50's and 60's in order to obtain the high quality sound we so desire to hear. I will speculate that you may have answered your own question to some degree--that music is often mixed and mastered to create a certain recorded "feel" and sound good on car radios, boomboxs, computers and other low-fi media.

Sadly, this has evolved in to overcompression!

Bob

 

So much has been said about this awful trend but not much done about it.

It was at least tolerable when it was confined to alternative/grunge and rap CDs. where it can actually benifit the music, but they went too damn far when they started doing it to reissues!

 

Compression--more

Grant,

I would argue that both Alternative and Rap are overcompressed as well!

Bob

 

Check this out for a definition of 'mastering':

http://www.tytabor.net/faq.htm#fourth

BAD!!!

Who, in your experiences, have been most responsible for the squashing of waveforms? I've noticed some stuff George Marino has worked on has been flattened.

 

Patrick I tried your link twice and got nowhere.

 

The record companies demand maximum compression. There is a competition "who has the loudest CD". Everybody wants to win this competition. Pro Audio vendors develop new better compressors all the time, so they can remove all dynamics from the music and make it loud from the first tone to the last.

 

I think that site has been kinda flakey today. I just tried it and it worked for me. YMMV.

 

The Universal Music Group stuff seems to have it the worst these days. I just heard a newish Motown compilation CD that just about straightened my hair. I mean the old Motown stuff sounds pretty good, but it's very compressed to begin with. What's the sense of reducing the dynamic range even more? I just played the song "Get Ready" by The Temptations. You know the part "I'm bringing you a love so true so get ready, get ready"? Well, in every version I've ever heard of this song, mono and stereo, it gets louder at that part. A neat thing. On this CD, it just gets more distorted, but no louder. Blahhhh. Gives me a headache just thinking about it.

It's just SOP now. EVERYTHING is shmushed, whether it needs it or not.

ALL THE MORE REASON TO SUPPORT AUDIOPHILE REISSUE LABELS!


Just "fixed" a word for you, Angel.- Claviusb

 

Here's Ty Tabor's definition of 'mastering':

What is "mastering"?

All nationally recorded albums (CD's) are mastered. This plays a major role in helping recorded material sound professional, rather than like a local demo. How is this done? By re-EQing, Compressing, Limiting, Normalizing, Level Adjustment, etc. This helps a recording fit within the accepted standards of hi fidelity. This "mastered" recording is then 'burned' to a Master CDR that is ready for production. Most recording studios DO NOT actually "master" your recordings. These days studios can easily make a CD or DAT that is ready for production. However, this is not to be confused with a "mastered" recording. If you want your project to sound professional, then mastering is a necessary function.

 

Oh my God! Say it ain't so!

 

Yes it is. I copied and pasted that.

 

If I may ask, what Motown comp were you listening to?

 

Where did this notion arise? What a joke. Thinking with gadgetry and a little knowledge, you can improve on the originals.

Sad, really. But only less than 1/10 of 1% of us care. It's a good thing someone does.

 

I'm not sure. A fellow engineer brought it in for a laugh. It probably isn't brand new though. I want to say "Motown-The Classic Years" (The COMPRESSED years). But, that might not be it.

Sorry.

 

I guess this is Ty Tabor of King's X. King's X has some of the most overcompressed ear torturing CD's I've heard. Good music, **** mastering. Is the vinyl any different?

 

Yes, that TT. Which CDs in particular are you refering to? All of them, or just the Metal Blade era albums?

I've been complaining about the production and mastering of the MB CDs. It's gotten me flame-roasted by KX fans.

I don't have any KX vinyl. I think only the first couple of albums were available on vinyl in the U.S.

 

Whatever it was, my money says it was remastered by either Erik Labson or suhr Gur.

Compression city!

 

Re: Re: Compression..why so much?

Yes. But why? WHY?? WHY???? Competition? What is the prize? More radio play? Greater attention from the masses? As I previously mentioned, AM and FM radio already compresses music to a common level. Why do the same thing to the source? What is the point in a format with a 100dB dynamic range when everything is stuck at the top? I've got mono rock 45's with more dynamic range and better sound.

I feel sad for current and future generations who may never get to hear music with emotion and impact. Too bad 'cause they might have liked some of it.

 

Beagle,

Hopefully, someone will answer your "real" question--why denegrate the music we listen to so it sounds like AM or FM radio! As it stands now, when we hear Contemporary music on the Radio it was been compressed at least several times over...add the pre-emphasis of the FM broadcast standard and you have "smiley face" EQ on top of all that compression.

Bob

 

That's *Suha* Gur.

Erik Labson works for MCA, not Motown. His Tommy CD still sounds pretty good...

I have yet to hear something from Suha Gur that I haven't liked.

 

Suha Gur--Motown Re-mastering

Lukpac,

I see both pluses and minuses in Suha Gur's work on the Motown catalog. His remix of Fingertips by Stevie Wonder and Beechwood 4-5789 by the Marvelettes are very well done. On his re-mastering, I hear some tracks that sound pretty good and some that are very disappointing. The Mono single mixes of Motown's hits by Bill Inglot on the Hitsville USA box set are far superior. Much of Gur's remastering of the older Motown material (1960--1970) appears to be unecessarily, further compressed from the already compressed masters. This added compression is my biggest criticism of Gur's re-mastering of the older Motown catalog. Hence, the subject of this thread!

Bob

 

Beagle,

My 2 cents on this issue.

Most of the population is uneducated when it comes to audio period. We are not the majority. Even as far back as 7 years ago, I couldn't have cared less because I didn't know any better and didn't have a revealing enough system to even notice the differences in quality.

Until JQ public either learns or discovers that the audio that they're paying for is crap, nothing will change.

The compression is to satisfy those with sub-woofer based systems, the bigger the boom, the better, the louder, the better. This is the focal point marketing plan of the labels. To sell more product to the largest number of people ie. the boom system buyer. We as audiophiles, barely make up 2% of the total market of sales and 99% of the labels couldn't care less about us.

The only way to make a change, is to educate as many people as you can and tell them not to stand for this BS. Educate them my friend, educate them.

 

Overcompressed and Squashed!

 

Thanks Bob, as his one typing finger takes a bow and collapses from exhaustion.