Confused...best cleaning device under $600 VPI, spin clean, nitty gritty, wood glue?

No problem, I appreciate that. I fully agree with you on the tap water and also being "leery" of records that show signs of a previous wet cleaning (usually dried water spots in lead out grooves, etc). Those can often be very bad signs and I'm reluctant to pay much for records like that or even purchase them at all at this stage as, in many cases, a lot of the crud will simply have been "cemented" into the groove as a result of poor vacuuming or no vacuuming at all, making them extremely difficult or even impossible to clean effectively.

So at least we're in partial agreement .

 

For sure, more than partial because a bad cleaning can make matters worse I think we both agree on that too in addition to not using tap water. I would say maybe there is an artform to doing it and those that know how to do it right and have nice equipment good on them, the rest of us will steer clear.

 

I can't think of a worse suggestion than to encourage people not to clean their records properly.

 

My view is people don't know how to do it properly or can't afford a proper machine like a loricraft and possibly the inexpensive market options are junk and don't do a good job, can't say for sure. But every record I purchased that was "cleaned" sounded like garbage to me. Maybe I was just unlucky or extra sensitive to chemical residue.

 

Like anything else, I would think that some research prior to settling into a cleaning procedure is always a good idea. Take wood glue -- took me several LP's (cheap bargain bin ones I tested) before I got a process that worked for me. It's like changing your oil on your car - the more you do it, the better / more efficient the process becomes.

 

Most people can afford a Spin Clean or Disco Antistat. Neither will make records worse with a little care. An Okki Nokki RCM is around $600 mentioned and will be even better. Also clean records reduce stylus wear saving considerable money in less frequent cartridge changes.

 

Actually, for very little money ($149.00) the GEM Dandy will clean records better than any of the common vacuum record cleaners. And there's no way you'll leave behind any chemical residue or do any damage to the vinyl using it. I hesitate to call it the "best" record cleaning device because it is awkward to use, you can get record labels wet if you are not careful and I find that I tend to spray water everywhere when I do a cleaning session with it. So in no way is it as convenient as any of the vacuum record cleaners or a Spin Clean. But man that hydraulic jet of water really cleans everything out of the grooves safely. It's a simple but brilliant device and it works.

 

Well that is interesting thanks. This would be acceptable (actually better than acceptable, ideal) to me if you could used distilled water, which I am not sure if you can or not, seems like you have to use tap water which is no good in my opinion because of all the contaminants, minerals etc. Since you bring up George Merrill, he found in his research that the swoosh of incoming air in the vacuum system actually dried the cleaning solution prematurely before there was enough suction built up to remove all the debris from the LP on conventional record cleaning machines like VPI and Nitty Gritty and that's why they simply do not work well in his opinion. In addition, he said that all record cleaning systems with any form of physical contact with the record damage and distorts the lands of the LP and this damage to the lands inherently distorts the signal.

 

Well, the GEM Dandy is George Merrill's invention. I can't speak for anyone else's water supply, but I use the GEM Dandy here and all I can say is that it works like a hot damn with my regular tap water. Personally, I don't see any need for distilled water for this application but that might not be universally true.

I will tell you that I'm much more concerned over the wear on my stylus that playing a dirty used record incurs than any fear over possible damage to a record from something in my water supply. But I've got pretty soft water with low mineral levels: it's perfect for cleaning records and brewing beer!

 

Never seen the GEM Dandy, but that looks like a relatively great option in between the spin-clean and a vacuum. Anyone else use one of these, specifically in areas with hard water? I read that you can use a cullingan filter?

 

didn't see you are in Canada, they haven't ruined their air and water as bad as we have down here in the states.

 

You probably could use a filter system with it - it doesn't actually require a very high flow rate from the tap, so I don't see why not.

 

Ha! You got me there. We do have pretty good water where I live. I'm sure there are plenty of areas in the US where the water is great, too. But there are parts of Canada where the water is really high in mineral content and I'd probably not be advocating the GEM Dandy there unless you filtered it somehow.

 

I have a nitty gritty and a Gem Dandy. The Gem Dandy's a joke IMHO.

I'd love to see George Merrill's "research" into how RCMs damage records.

 

I'm surprised you say that, because in my experience the Nitty Gritty doesn't come close to cleaning as well as the GEM Dandy and I've used both pretty extensively. No question the Nitty Gritty is easier to use and yeah, the GEM Dandy is a pretty simple device and is a bit clunky in operation. But I've got records that I couldn't get clean with multiple passes with the Nitty Gritty than cleaned up perfectly with the GEM Dandy.

What makes you call it a joke?

 

Am I to interpret this correctly that you've never cleaned a record yourself...? And are then judging cleaning methods based on some unknown persons using unknown cleaning methods?

 

Yes, that is correct, but it's not as bad as you might think. I did bunch of research on the topic because I was considering buying one a while back. I talked to a bunch of record stores and used equipment resellers who had devises presently or in the past, some had real expensive ones like the keith monks. Enough said that they didn't use them anymore because they didn't work well, that I decided against buying one. In addition, I respect the opinion of people like George Merill and others that use pretty sound physics to prove that the vacuums on these things are not good enough to suck up all that sludge one creates inside microscopic grooves, it's just not possible in my opinion, the vacuum will evaporate the cleaning solution before it can suck up the dirt and in many cases leave solution behind. In some cases some of these machines damage the record and or create a lot of extra static if not done properly. I came to the conclusion that at best it was a waste of time and money but in the worst case situation may actually ruin a record's sound quality. Even if it does work you have to clean it before you play it again or you will hear that residual noise. Now I tend to only buy things in really good condition, certainly if you have something that is filthy you need think about it and pick the best option and that might be cleaning it over playing it dirty. I don't know, I am certainly no expert but I did my due diligence and came to my own conclusion which was that it's a waste of time and money, on my death bed I am not going to regret not having cleaned my records. Also most surface noise does not bother me in the least, if it did I would just listen to cd's rather than waste a lot of time and money cleaning lps. Yes, I admit that I don't know the cleaning process used on the ones that I purchased other than they said cleaned on a VPI using some or other solution, I didn't ask for a video of them cleaning it! just kidding but you get my point, it's not possible to know everything on how they were cleaned I get that. But all in all I am guessing most others will disagree with me and I am in the vast minority on this and that is fine, I totally respect whatever opinion others might have, I just wanted to provide an alternate view for anyone that might be open to it. I think I will shut up now!

 

Interesting thread. I have only owned one wet cleaning machine in my life, and it's a VPI. I have a fairly large collection of vinyl, but even my used records are generally in pretty good shape. My random thoughts are below.

1. I think that some kind of record cleaning machine is the best investment a vinyl collector can make if you listen to any used vinyl at all. A RCM is also handy for recent releases that tend to be noisy on first pass - quite often it is stuff in the grooves. Generally, on a new record, the stuff is loose enough that a RCM will do the job. I can't understand anyone who says it makes no difference - it clearly helps; that's not even an issue.

2. I have no evidence of this, but it seems to me that a RCM that uses those plastic brushes will simply never reach contaminants that are trapped in the very bottom of the groove - how could they? Those brush fibers will never be able to reach where a diamond stylus does. So, an RCM is relying on the liquid to loosen contaminants. Hopefully, it is able to loosen them from deep in the groove, and the vacuum either sucks them out with the liquid, or picks them up on the cloth material that lines the vacuum wand.

3. The GEM Dandy machine solves this problem by blasting the deeply embedded crud with a jet stream of water. Sounds but, but the product has always seemed to me to be fatally flawed because you're supposed to allow tap water to dry in the grooves. That can't be a good idea. I've seen used records with water spots. Hell, I've seen our drinking glasses with water spots caused by tap water. Maybe things would be OK with tap water in Hawaii, but I wouldn't use the Gem Dandy in, say, Bombay.

4. I don't clean every single record. I don't think it's necessary. If a record has been cleaned recently, usually the trusty discwasher (old black microfibre version, of course; the new corduroy version is evil) will pick up the dust on the surface. But, I think that a record cleaner, used judiciously (brushes should be used to gently track the grooves, not to scrub violently) shouldn't have an adverse effect on vinyl.

 

Going into my 6th year using a Record Doctor built by Nitty Gritty. I paid $300 but now they sell new for $200. It's fully manual and has done a great job on over 600 lp's. I've never had an issue with it.

 

I'm about two days into my 1st experience trying to clean really dirty records with wood glue.

I obtained a large box full of mostly 60s and 70s classic rock and singer songwriter titles for free because the entire box got wet in a garage. The water seeped in from the bottom- some lps were relatively lightly affected (e.g. slight water damage to cover, record fine) while others got so wet the paper innersleeves fused to the records. The whole lot sat for a long time before the water damage was discovered, so many of the records were also moldy. On top of all that, it looks like mice worked on the top edges of the lot of the album covers- the one part that mostly escaped the water. All in all, a pretty sad lookin pile of records. But the price was right- zero.

I found two early mono Rolling Stones titles- Now and Aftermath US version- with the red London labels. But they were stuck inside the damp moldy innersleeves. There was mold growing on one of the labels on the record itself. Both records had quite a bit of mold on the playing surfaces too. They seemed destined for the trash. But after reading about this glue method, I was tempted to give it a try. Nothing to lose.

The first thing I did was to clean the mold off the labels with a Clorox disinfecting wipe. This did a nice job of removing mold from the labels. But one of the labels did start to peel a bit, it just had too much mold damage on it.

It also made sense (to me anyway) to try and get some of the worst of the mold off the playing surfaces before laying down a coat of glue. So I rinsed each disc under warm tap water, actually using a finger to loosen and rub away some the mold. Surely this also pushed some of it into the grooves, but I decided that it would be hard to make matters worse. I was able to rinse away a lot of the mold. But there were still some cloudy looking areas where it looked like it was deep in the grooves.

The gluing was pretty straightforward. Elmer's Titebond II wood glue. Some people use an old TT to spin while laying down the glue. I just went around the disc while it was lying on a piece of plastic. Smeared it around with an old credit card, as recommended. Let air dry, took about 5 hours with a box fan going on medium. I used small pieces of blue painter's tape for pull tabs at the disc edges, just glued over those.

The glue peels came off easily. Amazingly so. Elmer's Titebond II almost seems like it was made for this purpose. All traces of mold were now gone. The playing surfaces looked clean and shiny.

Most importantly, the records aren't just playable now, they sound really good. The covers are completely trashed and even the labels are damaged. But the vinyl is actually in nice shape, not worn at all. It is sad about the labels but I rescued some great discs from the edge of oblivion, and added some nice hard to find and great sounding titles to my collection. Next up is a batch of Beatles rainbow Capitols, most of the early Dylan catalog (some Columbia two eyes, need to learn more about pressings), Allman Bros Idlewild South on ATCO, some early Taj Mahal, etc etc.

I'm now a believer in wood glue, at least for records that are really really dirty..