Dave Brubeck - "Time Out" AP SACD

I got the Analogue Productions SACD of "Time Out" today and did a quick comparison with the original Sony SACD (using Blue Rondo a la Turk and Take Five)

1) The AP Hybrid SACD is much better than the Sony single layer SACD. It is more open sounding, better high end extension and really sounds great (as does the new AP 45rpm LP, which I also purchased). (This comparison was done with the 2 channel mix.)

2) The Sony SACD sounds flatter with a much different EQ overall. The bass is more prominent on the Sony SACD, but the entire presentation sounds closed in and less distinct than the AP SACD. (This comparison was done with the 2 channel mix.)

3) The AP SACD, although not indicated anywhere on the package or liner notes, includes the same 5 channel mix that is on the original Sony SACD. Again, using the same two songs, the clarity of the surround mix on the AP SACD just shimmers and shines - it is wonderful. The Sony SACD surround mix, has the same exact instrument placement (mostly a 3 channel mix with some ambient sound in the rears), but again it sounds "heavy" with less clarity. The strangest thing, and maybe it is because of the overall clarity of the AP SACD, the ambient sound from the rear speakers was a bit more prominent with the AP SACD over the Sony.

I distinctly prefer the AP SACD, even if, during comparison, the bass seems a bit "lacking" when doing a direct comparison with the Sony. I guess the decision is whether you like your bass (from an acoustic bass) to be full and resounding but less distinct (as on the Sony SACD), or a bit "light" in comparison, but very clear.

Oh and the cymbals on the AP SACD - the sound...

 

Interesting to read the above review (thanks for posting it). Wow - and I really like the Mark Wilder-mastered Columbia/Legacy SACD version of this title (I'm assuming that's the Sony SACD the reviewer above is referring to - but perhaps not?). I don't find the high end extension to be lacking, and I think the bass is to die for - I don't find it sounds overly goosed - it just captures that characteristic slightly boomy, resonant bass sound I find was present on a lot of the stuff recorded in Columbia's NY studio during that era (I have dozens of jazz dates recorded there and they all have that sound). I'd hate for that to be missing or toned down. Steve has said some nice things about that SACD here on the Forums as well.

I will be watching this thread closely for other opinions though - damn, this review has me intrigued enough I may end up having to take the plunge on the new SACD to compare for myself...or, maybe the 45 rpm LP instead (that's really a whole different animal).

Sometimes this interest is more like a sickness!

One point to clarify: is the new Analogue Productions hybrid SACD also (like the earlier Wilder-mastered SACD) remixed from the original tapes? Or does it use the original mix? I just looked on the AP Web blurb to see if this was mentioned, and it's not. If the new SACD uses the original mix, well then it's well worth having just for that alone - and, that could account for some of the differences in sound noted in the review.

 

Remastered by Bernie Grundman; authored for SACD by Gus Skinas on the SONOMA system

 

Thanks for the review.

 

Thanks, saw this on the AP web site, but it unfortunately doesn't address which source was used - frustratingly vague in fact. The Wilder Columbia/Legacy SACD was remixed from the original 3 track work tapes. It's outstanding to my ears. If it turned out Grundman used Wilder's mix and just tweaked the EQ a bit I'd probably pass since I don't find the older SACD problematic in any way. I'm primarily interested in the new one if it uses the original LP mix or is a completely new mix.

 

Agreed- the mix info is still needed..I just figured I would add the person that mastered it to the discussion as I don't see too many Grundman remastered SACD's

 

The high-end on the Sony SACD (yes the Mark Wilder mastered disc), isn't lacking at all - I didn't mean to give that impression. It sounds fine, but the clarity and sweetness/sparkle of the high-end on the new Bernie Grundman master (both SACD and 45rpm LP) is that much better to my ears.

If you really like the bass on the Sony SACD, maybe the AP disc is not for you. It is toned down in comparison. But I still think the AP disc, with the overall clarity and wide open soundstage (in comparison to the Sony) makes the AP, to me, the better listen.

How would I know if the AP disc is the re-mix or the original mix? As far as the two songs I compared, both sounded like the same mix, which would mean that the new SACD (and 45rpm LP) might be using the re-mix. That said, I used to have an old LP pressing (not an original - but not a re-mix) - but it was destroyed in a basement flood. I also have the original CD, but it isn't that easy to get to right now to compare (although I might take the time to move some things around to get to it).

So if you can tell me what to listen for, maybe I can determine if the new SACD is the re-mix or the original mix.

 

Mike, thanks for the review. Like DrJ, I am very happy with the Sony SACD, but you have me intrigued. It sounds like Mr. Grundman did a great job.

 

Again, another title that keeps getting the audiophile treatment. How many more times can I buy this title.

I wonder how the 45rpm sounds when compared to the Classic Records version.

 

Mine will be coming on Saturday (along with a few other titles ordered from Acoustic Sounds). I only have the Columbia redbook (1997??) Looking forward to an improvement. Though, I do feel bad for people that have purchased every iteration of this title---with that said, this one should be worth the cash.

 

Thanks for the review, Mike.

 

I knew this thread was going to make me cry before I opened it up. The Mark Wilder disc on Columbia/Legacy was one of the hallelujah moments in the early days of my SACD devotion, and I've also got a six-eys mono vinyl LP that is one of the greatest-sounding records I won. Now this! The sickness continues...

 

The 45 rpm vinyl version is a keeper too. Better than my Classic Records pressing.

 

I know what you mean, Brother. I like the original SACD but I might still buy this particular iteration.

 

That's not too surprising.

 

Thanks for the review... very helpful.

 

Thanks a lot.

I wouldn't call it a "surround mix" though, because the rear channels only contain artificial reverb. No idea why they didn't simply stick to a 3.0 mix, like on other SACDs made from 3-track masters (AP, Living Stereo, Mercury)

Theoretically, any stereo recording could be converted to a 4.0 mix like that, but that would just show how little sense the rear channel information makes, when it's not genuine.

 

Not a fan of the Sony SACD?

 

Guys-

can someone post the catalog / matrix #'s on the Sony SACD?

 

This and the other 100 pop and jazz album titles that keep getting reissued. Would like to see the mono Time Out now that Sony Legacy is finally releasing the mono Kind Of Blue.

 

are they?

 

Why not? It's easy to say things like that without explaining what you mean.

 

Let's put it this way: Columbia is releasing a vinyl box set of the first eight Miles Davis lps in mono versions this fall.

 

I know. But it's not certain they will reissue "the" mono Kind of Blue, i.e. the original mono mix, since the tape is said to be lost.

"The sources used will be the original mono masters whenever they are available."

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=287618

 

Which is why I said "Le'ts put it this way." I'm not convinced they won't turn up the tape, stranger things happen all the time. I trust actually that they'll find some way to put out a decent transfer, from the original tape or a safety copy somewhere, or some sort of lp transfer. I'm in.